I am back, folks. My system was the third most talked about system after Mike Levine's and Albert Porter's.
For some personal reasons I took a break from audio. But I am back with good news and not so thrilling news. The not so thrilling news is that the system is unchanged. And the good news is that it is so hard to improve it, regardless of the price -- I do not know what to upgrade, except may be cables -- as I hit the peak performance from my perspective. The sound thrills me still every time I listen. Still, 140plus tubes, embedded in the finest of amps and pre-amp driving a legendary speaker that can give a good run for money to speakers costing $100k plus, all making heat and magic at the same time. Wow, life is good.
Acknowledgements:
There are several people I wish to acknowledge who have helped me a great deal in building this system:
1. Charlie, who designed one of the finest preamps. Although, TRL Dude is marginally better, the Charlie X-2 will stay with me for ever and will continue to provide listening pleasures
2, Paul Weitzel of Tube Research Labs (TRL) for his helping on tuning the amps and on his feedback on many other technical aspects of the system at the micro and macro level.
3. David Royalty for building nice wooden battery casing for the TRL moded Sony CD player and also for numerous technical feedbacks.
4. Ivan Li of Hong Kong for showing me the insight into planar speaker placement.
5. Steve Dobbins of Xact audio for coming all the way from Idaho to install the tonearm and overall turntable tune up.
6. many visitors who have graced my listening room with their presence.
7. All audio friends who are not mentioned above.
8. Audiogoners who continue to post interesting and thought provoking comments here.
Lissnr, A friend of mine has a similar Duelund pathway as yours. Lampizator Big 5 DAC, Absolare Passion Signature preamp and Absolare Passion PSET amplifier, all three components have Duelund CAST . The sound speaks for itself and certainly the CAST play a role in this performance. Charles,
Lssnr, The Duelund effect is cumulative because their contribution is in the direction of natural sound, how can a system sound " too" natural? They are exemplary is this fashion. They don't result in analytical-etched nor do they go the other way with redundant warmth. Natural and realism is what distinguishes their contribution. I have CAST in my DAC (front end) and speaker (final end). My amp and preamp have interstage transformers, other wise I'd have Duelunds in them as well. This isn't an attempt to make a case claiming perfection (doesn't exist). But rather to say one could do far worse with their money spent on other items in terms of return on equity. Charles,
Gallant_diva and all, There's one other aspect of the Duelunds that needs to be brought up again. I have generally read over the years that mixing different capacitor brands, each with their own distinct qualities can result in a positive blending of many of their attributes... Until recently I have quite honestly not been into this aspect of improving my system. Like many others I have been chasing components and/or cables and/or room treatments or whatever other path(s) in my quest for better sound.Dealing with capacitor upgrades only recently came into my view and I decided about a year ago to jump into the Duelund vs the whatever-else-was-already-in-it arena. There are some excellent points being made here about cost vs value of improvement in sound quality, and the common sense answer as we all know, [as has been stated already], is performance return for the $$$ spent. I feel it is quite safe to say that considering the average expense invested into most of the systems of those reading this thread, that the Duelunds cost/performance ratio is a no-brainer and easily justifies itself... "and then some".... What I do want to mention as well is that this effect IS cumulative. Perhaps flying in the face of the long established "mix and match" capacitor theory as above, I have found that so far, 3 components in succession, all Duelund equipped, is NOT too much of a good thing. It IS MORE of a great thing becoming greater. I speak of Dac feeding pre-amp feeding amps...all Duelund Cast and each one bringing the system farther along in the goal of hearing "Natural", "Lifelike" in-your-room music. Honestly I have really nothing else that obviously lends itself for 'Duelund Insertion' but if I did, I'd roll the dice and give it a try because so far, "Too much???" Isn't; it's still better. My only regret is not having stock in this company...(I have NO ties to it at all) I'm just a happy customer. Go figure. My point is: based on my experience, I doubt Your Mileage May Vary... Just my 2 cents ...Happy Lissn'n!
Hi Dan, Believe me I spend my money cautious as a lot of High End audio can sometimes be hype and foolishness. Some products are worth their premium cost, Duelund is among this category. If you can comfortably afford the Duelund CAST I feel very comfortable encouraging you to do so. It's a superb capacitor that would improve any good SET amplifier's sound. Charles,
One of the reasons I am enjoying my first SET 300B amp so much (besides the excellent EML 300B XLS tubes), is the caps were upgraded with the new Jupiters. There is no doubt they are a major contributor in making an otherwise inexpensive amplifier sound so much better than any other amp I've owned.
Curiosity, though, keeps dragging me towards Dueland caps, most likely to replace/compare against the Mundorf silver-in-oil caps currently in the Tannoy outboard crossovers.
In that, Charles, you are a bad influence on me, as is all this talk of better performance with the uber-expensive Duelands. Always a better widget out there.
I have often wondered if dampening a good Mundorf cap as mentioned above in plumbers putty, sand, etc... would give the CAST effect? I doubt it as Duelund does it inside the cap where it matters more I would think......
chadeffect: Value for money? no, I was not saying that. this is not a hobby with that parameter.I was saying for most die hard audiophile, the price tag often fools them into thinking that the more expensive the better automatically. I am not in that category though. If I put a $50 cable next to $5000, I will take the **one that sounds better** (including the possibly that I will pay $5000 if it is much better) unlike many people who will pick the $5000 one without thinking, and will assume the $50 is a piece of junk.
I have seen too many example of that, more expensive the cartridge, more better sounding to the audiophile ears. The same for $200,000 speakers, which are nothing but a wooden box, and some electronic junk and paper woofer. It is horrible how people perceive that to be a great sounding but if you put it next to a Mercedes, it looks like a joke. Many of these speakers should cost no more than $10,000 per pair but then they would not hold any value to the audiophile with big pocket. What an irony but who am I to care, the audiophile is happy and manufacture is even more happy and probably deserves all those luxury boats and Ferraris.
Bill, Here's my point, what other accessories or modifications are available for the same cost of the CAST that yield equally the musical/sonic results. Many products can alter the sound, not nearly as many improve the beautiful "natural" quality of the sound as convincing as the CAST in my opinion. Very few products are able to provide an improved naturalness and resolution concurrently, very few. Charles,
I really have no experience to know exactly what is inside a Dueland. But I did see an article somewhere where someone was trying to copy a Dueland by taking a fairly decent cap and inserting it into a toilet paper tube then filling the remaining space with sand, as a vibration damper and heat dissapator, then sealing the ends.
I have no clue if this is even close to what Dueland does, but they reported an improvement in the sound of the cap afterwards.
They are only too expensive as they have no real competition until now with Jupiter. If the Jupiter's are as good as the Beta testers say, and they are lower priced as expected, then we will all pay less for CAST quality sound.
CAST type sound in a capacitor really sound not cost $1000's should it? It's a capacitor, not a entire amp!
My view is this. I have always been pleasantly surprised by vibration dampening effect on sound quality. Potted inductors, weight added to components and stands etc. I think some of the duelund sound is about this. The cap being so compressed and solid as part of its manufacture.
That's it. I have friends in the Starsound camp who have noted improvements in performance with mechanical grounding of transformers, caps, circuit boards, chassis, xovers, etc, etc.
GD, the Dale I was referring to is Dale Pitcher from Intuitive Design. He is another proponent of vibration management.....
+1Chadeffect, I'd only disagree with one point you made. They aren't stupidly expensive, when you factor in their actual performance contributions to your components/system. Their impact is so apparent that I consider them a genuine value ppurchase. You could spend the same money for what the Duelund CAST cost and achieve less of a gain with other audio products. Chadeffect I also agree with the benefits of "natural" materials compared to synthetic alternatives , for example dielectrics applications. I suspect that there are very few people who've used Duelund CAST and felt they overspent after listening to them. Charles,
Chadeffect nailed it and what a great response. Nice job. They sound great, but are way overpriced in terms of what's inside. Cut one in half and look! I have seen pictures of this and there is nothing very special inside compared to other caps. Well built, compressed cap.
Value for money? Well I suspect it's the wrong hobby for that. But I think we are all long enough in the tooth to be aware of the various minefields and snake oil. A healthy distain for equipment is my current state. But I'm always willing to audition.
Some equipment is just right, and you know from the 1st note it's worthy of further investigation and a possible splashing of the cash moment is close!
What's inside the Duelund? Not much! There is little monetary value IMO, but my god their caps sound good.
My view is this. I have always been pleasantly surprised by vibration dampening effect on sound quality. Potted inductors, weight added to components and stands etc. I think some of the duelund sound is about this. The cap being so compressed and solid as part of its manufacture.
Secondly I have had cables that utilised silk and natural products and they have nearly always had a positive effect on the overall sound. Naturalness, ease, more organic or real sounding. The characteristics a grown up hifi system should display. And this is the world duelund inhabits IMHO.
They are stupidly expensive, but I know of no other cap that has this tone. It is wonderful.
A part of me would attempt to house the Mundorfs in resin or something like that. I bet part of the hyped or etched sound of the Silver gold in oil cap is due to vibration. If you hold the Mundorf cap by the leg and flick the other leg the thing rings like a bell for a second or 2. Never a good sign for audio. Flick the duelund and there is no ringing. Nothing.
Mabonn: How much is my electricity bill? Good question. First of all, I am a big supported of sustainability and hence a believer in economizing on electricity and cleaner energy. With that of my chest, I can tell you that I have not calculated but it can be done. The formula is roughly to calculate the watts which is voltage times current drawn. That is the power consumption but than the energy consumption will be power multiplied by the listening time (in a month). It is hard to know unless I punch cards and listening varies from month to month and season to season (also depending on the mood).
But I can tell you two things: One, my electricity bill is very higher in summer due to air conditioning even though I listen rarely in summer (either I am travelling or the room is too hot). In contrast, I listen quite frequently in winter and the bill is very reasonable.
Second, while advocating sustainability the way I justify the power consumption of my sound system is that it keeps my sanity -- in fact, keep the sanity is the whole idea behind this enjoyment. That way I contribute more to sustainability through other means :)
Grannyring, Ptmconsulting, and Chadeffect, I am curious as to what is inside the Dueland. Is there real substance that makes it better or is it the audiophile snake oil. You know how the die heard audiophile gets ready to empty wallet on $5000 dollar cable versus $50 cable even if the latter is the same but with a different colored jacket? I have seen too much hype and experience the truth behind these hypes myself. Another problem is that most people do not have very high resolution systems, so any change in a component sounds good to them initially. I am not suggesting you guys belong to that category and I certainly do not suggest $50 cable will be always better (a good be a good cable based on listening). But I am just curious as to what is inside the Dueland and what makes a a better cap.
Agear, sorry for my delayed response but I was terribly busy at work during the past week. I read your post with intrigue. Before I comment on the system did you say
"And yes, I will be looking you up if I am ever in Dallas for a conference...."
But that is where I have been living, .,...duh, where did you think I was living, In Chicago, next to that priest who has half a million dollar Magico speakers?
BTW, where do you live?
Who is Dale that you referring to?
Yes, I am focusing on analog source. I have a Scully which needs some work. I am hoping when Paul is here visiting me, he could the Scully tuned up and running.
Yes, I am a computer science and quite a digital person at work but I keep my work and hobbies separate because that is how I relax. I have not looked in the computer server as digital source but it is on my list of things to explore. I would like to know more about your DAC. You have some more pointers? What is your source for that DAC?
I am also planning of building some speaker cables.
G Diva, the noise is not background noise or hiss or anything like that. Once you have them in your system will indeed be rid of artifacts/noise you had no idea was there. Look forward to your comments once completed and burned in for at least 100 hours.
When you get a chance look at my Dude as I have other ideas for you.
Agear: Sorry for my late reply to your detailed message. I was terribly busy at work during the past week.
Yes, I am a computer and digital guy. But I keep my work completely separately from my hobby. Digital audio has not made much progress as we see the same amps, same speaker, and the same CD players. although digital video has made tremendous progress. I have been looking at some digital option or the computer-based source though but until I and completely aware of all the option, I am not gonna jump into it.
I have Scully Tape deck that needs some work and I am hoping when Paul visits me we can get that up and running. I am expecting the Tape Deck to sound much better than Vinyl and CD. So I agree with you on that.
By the way, you said if I ever come to Dallas, I should try to meet you. Did I read that up correctly? hahahah, I have been in Dallas for 13 years, so what are you talking about? Where do you live by the way?
Grannyring: Thanks for the kind advice. I have the Duelands for the DUDE at hand and just waiting for some time slot out of my busy schedule to install them. As far as noise is concerned, my current sound is dead free of noise and it is at satisfying as it can get. Just wondering what further noise level can be reduced....hmmm...curious.
Richard (Klinerm): I am curious to know your room size. Also, if you see too much flutter in the midrange and tweeter, you can add a large cap (about 100-150 uf) in series between the amp and the speaker. That cap will be out of the frequency band of the Mid/tw and hence would not interfere with the crossover but fix the flutter problem.
to be clear, I meant that around 50-100 hours of signal burn in on the duelunds will start to show you what's in store. Not that they would be fully burned in. But you can start to enjoy them then, rather than wondering why you spent all that cash for lifeless sound?
Has anyone had experience with the Rike cap yet? I haven't had time to instal mine yet. The only spare time I have had I chose to listen rather than solder. I have duelunds in so I'm ok!
