Hello Raytheprinter! No worries on the Supratek preamp suggestion, I am certain it is a wonderful preamp. It was down to that preamp and the First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II. I had previously owned a Quicksilver linestage and was looking into both, thus most likely your statement.

Thanks for the comments on my writing... I should perhaps pre-write or at least proof read my posts... most are more like ramblings that often do not get proof read. :)
Break in has to be one of my biggest pet peeves. As for my power cables, for the first time in a LONG time I am really quite satisfied with my power cords. As effective as a power cord can be on bringing out the best in a component, it also amazes me how they are all cumulative as well. I would imagine my cd player doesn't draw the current of an amplifier, yet a good powercord still makes a night and day difference.

Alas, I find myself going through another breakin currently. However, this is one of the few that has not been painful. The new mono's sounded more than decent new, and about 80 hours on them now they have opened up nicely! Still have to force myself to wait a few hundred hours more before any critical analysis...

audiofankj October 04, 2004 23:56

hello Audiofankj,in my earlier response i mentioned supratek preamp when you have a first sound,wow what was i thinking!my apologys,,,you do have nice descriptive style of writing,makes for good reading!esp your earlier response on diff. power cables and break in!break in drives me nuts,,,it does seem the bass takes the longest to flesh out,,any recent thoughts on your power cables?

raytheprinter October 04, 2004 21:29

Tvad - there are a few reviews and much info on the H20 amps on the Apogee user forum. Here is the link...

http://audioworld.com/sw/Forum1/HTML/003861.html

I too was intrigued by the buzz these amps were creating and was able to drive up to visit Henry Ho in Virginia about 6 weeks ago and listen to his amps driving the Apogee Scintilla's. I will send you a private email with Henry's phone number if you care to give him a call I am sure he can answer any of your questions. I am also under the impression there is a "loaner" amp (stereo model - I think) out there - although it may be in circulation.

Oh - one note of interest, there is reference to pricing on the Apogee site in which was introductory/cost-to-manufacture specials or deals in which Henry was offering to members of the Apogee forum before he took his company public. Quite a generous offer! I have heard a "broken in" pair of standard monoblocks and still felt the "retail" pricing is still a bargain. I chose to have Henry manufacture the "Signature" version of his monoblocks - in which he states he conservatively feels is about 20-25% better than the standard model. My amps are just beginning the break in process - so no comparisons as of yet.

The website should be up in a few days to a couple of weeks from what I understand.

audiofankj October 03, 2004 18:16

I've done a web search for the H20 amps with no luck. How does one get more info/research about these amplifiers?

tvad October 03, 2004 15:29

Thanks gentlemen! Yeah, the room no longer goes from 68 to 85 in less than an hour! The H20 Signature Monoblocks are just beginning to go through the "break in" process... as I have about 20 hours on them... and I have promised Henry (designer/engineer of H20) I would not put on my "listening hat" for at least a few hundred hours. However, with the system running in the other room, and the doors closed - the sound eminating keeps coaxing me to pop my head in, then sit down for a bit. I will patiently wait a few hundred hours before making any defined statements...

audiofankj October 03, 2004 04:57

Nice amps,Kirk. They should really make those Meadowlarks sing. Enjoy the music, my friend.

sherod October 02, 2004 07:08

Great job Kirk! Love the looks of the H20's with the ice technology! Very cool. Will definately make time to get together again after some breaking in and familiarity. Your room should be a lot cooler now! :) Enjoy.-Ken

kehut October 02, 2004 02:07

System edited: Amplifier upgrade. Quicksilver V4 monoblocks sold. H20 M250 Signature Monoblocks installed & "breaking in"

audiofankj October 02, 2004 00:32

Thanks Ken,

Was a pleasure to have you over. We will have to do it again soon! I am hoping this fall will begin the search for a new analog rig, however you are aware of some of my other tangents I am currently exploring. Perhaps the analog rig will have to wait a bit longer. I am eager to see if the venture into the "new direction" yields any improvement. I will have to make that trip over to your oasis soon!

audiofankj September 05, 2004 03:35

Hey Kirk-
Thanks for the audition of your system. I was truly impressed with the sound. Even more impressive when you get to see and hear it up in person!. Like you said, the pics can't do the system justice. Awesome tight bass and very smooth mids and highs/excellent imaging through the Meadowlarks. Good luck with your next venture( I wont divulge that info!) I know your eagerly awaiting it!..Of course you must return the favor and stop on over for an evening of spinning Analog on my rig!!..Great job!-:) Ken

kehut August 31, 2004 00:45

Yes, what incredible gear one would have if there was a winfall like the lottery. Unfortunately, I will be doing these cable changes one at a time. So, as you have done, I think that it makes good sense to start from the wall. I have been wondering how the Equi-Tech 5W might improve our BPT 3.5s. By the way, those MF Gain Cords are breaking in nicely. I am hearing much more of the bodies of the instruments. The noise floor has dropped quite a bit. I only have about 20 hours on them. So, they still have quite a while to go. Also, I tried Walker Audio's SST. It works nicely. After all your gear settles in, you may want to try it. I started at the wall and worked forward.

brooksl May 31, 2004 04:43

Ken - thanks. I hope they work as well in my system as they do for you in yours. They are sounding fine so far!

Brooks - my apologies! I didn't mean for it to be contageous! I really am very pleased with the sonic presentation I am getting thus far with the Mini Khan's. I would imagine they would be superb on your VAC amps.

Which would I do first? Well... as much as I wanted to put cables on the components first, I was highly advised to start at the wall. Thus the first cable I upgraded was the Ultra Khan II Statement from the FIM wall outlet to the BPT 3.5 Signature. The advice makes sense, as everything passsing through the BPT is affected by the powercord on that.

The Electraglide literature that comes with the powercords states, "System component priorities for insertion are as follows: #1 preamp, #2 D to A converter, #3 CD Transport, #4 Power Amp." Now the dealer advice I have grown to trust through my own trials and tribulations strongly recommends the power conditioner first, then the cd player or preamp most of the time. When I say I have grown to trust, I have often "followed the hype" on a certain product with rave reviews, etc. only to be dissapointed in the performance. Sure it may be a great cord, but there is not enough said about those dealers that know how certain components interact with other cords.

Almost all have told me that power cords on the amps make the least amount of difference in the system. In my system however power cord changes on the amps are very noticable.

My best suggestion: Go spend $1 on the winning lottery ticket and buy one for each. No - nevermind then I will have to split the winnings from my lottery ticket with you! Well, OK, I can suffer with half of the lottery winnings. :)

audiofankj May 30, 2004 18:01

Kirk, Your description if the Mini Kahn's almost has me placing an order. I bet they would be great on my VAC. Which would you do first: an Ultra Kahn for the BPT or 2 Mini Kahns for my amps? Thanks, Brooks

brooksl May 30, 2004 05:20

System edited: Satisfied? Getting there. With the recent addition of the NOS Siemens 7308 gold pins for the preamp the system really started to "gel". However, I didn't feel I had the dynamic impact and transient snap that was present when I had the Shunyata Taipans on the amps. They were replaced with Harmonix X-DC Studio Masters with all Wattagate plugs on both amps and preamp. The sound was very musical and natural, quite detailed, the only caveat was the bass was not as tight as I had experienced with the Taipans (also a less expensive cord). However, other than the bass impact seeming slightly bloated and not as fast and dynamic as it was with the Taipans the sound was "there" in my mind. I was about to throw in the towel on more changes, and decided you don't have to give up one area of sonics for another... you should be able to get both... Thus the saga continues. As of late yesterday the Harmonix X-DC Studio Masters on the amps and preamp were all replaced with Electraglide Mini Khan Plus power cords. One of the most frustrating things to me is "break in" on cables... thus upon insertion I sat down for a listen, with "buyers remorse" twinging in my stomach before the first note was eminated forth from the speaker. Well, out came the first note. "Pleasant and listenable" was the thought - honest - they were a bit closed in, the bass was a little shy. So up went the volume until I went to bed, and again the volume went skyward this morning as I set forth on a day of yardwork. (rewind - the Harmonix X-DC Studio Masters took all of 200 hours to break in, and sounded very closed in for the first 60 hours, and continued to sound gradually better through 200 hours.) After approximately 30 hours of play on the new Electraglide cables I am quite stunned. Let me also state I was told they will not sound "good" until they have 60-80 hours on them, and take 200 hours for total break in. I digress... anyhow with 30 hours on them so far they have opened up significantly. The bass speed is back. The bass isn't fully fleshed out yet, nor do I expect it to be only after 30 hours... however what was unexpected was the midrange and treble improvements. I honestly felt the Harmonix X-DC's were doing "fine" and had no qualms in either area. Well, as of this point with the Electraglide Mini Khan Plus on the amps and preamp the midrange has the same natural presentation and harmonic delicacy as with the Harmonix X-DC, however the soundstage has opened up, and there is more "air" around the vocals and individual performers in the soundstage. Acoustic decay and venue ambience is also more noticable. Not in the way in that you hear imperfections in the recording session, but more along the lines of the reverb and decay on a Les Paul guitar on a given track where it seems to fade off into the distance and the edge of the soundstage. The treble improvement was not imaginged in the slightest! I also felt the Harmonix was doing everything "right" in my system before as well. They were, as I was unaware it could get better. With the Electraglides now inserted a given cymbal stike has an immediacy of a lifelike presentation yet also has the shimmer and sheen often lost in music reproduction, compared to how it sounds live. This was not expected as the cymbals sound so much more realistic and lifelike without any edge. This is the best cymbal reproduction any music rig of mine has ever had, and is the first time this area of sonics has surpassed my "old system" which were Martin Logan speakers, and with the right combination of equipment they can sound incredible on transient speed, harmonics, timbre and decay with some of the best. At this point with only 30 hours of break in on the power cables, I am not really minding the fact that I know they should still improve. The sound is still a bit closed in on certain tracks in which I am very familiar with, however certain areas are already surpassing what was already constant in my system. Bass still needs to flesh out in depth (which usually takes the longest with cables - in my expereince) but the speed is back. One last note. The Harmonix X-DC Studio Masters *may* have been the "perfect" cord for me if I had a Pass Labs X250 or the like in which the bottom end has utmost control and speed already, the X-DC would most likely be a great match with very natural and musical presentation. However, in my system with the Quicksilver V4 monoblocks coupled with the X-DC's the sound in the bass was a bit tubby and bloated. Could I have happily lived with it? Honestly - if I hadn't heard the system with the speed of the Shunyata Taipan's first, the answer would be yes. However, knowing the bass control the amps had with the Taipan's it bothered me the "more expensive cord that sounded better in all other areas" could not compliment the amps and control the bass the way I knew it could sound. Thus the search continued... I will post any sonic changes now and then if any are interested.

audiofankj May 30, 2004 02:06

Kirk-

Nice going. I think you'll like these tubes. I have found them to be the best for my tastes and have tried many, many other types including the Amperex PQ's and Telefunkens. I seem to prefer the Siemens 7308/1E88CC for their smoothness, yet excellent detail and resolution, and imaging qualities, and very nice tight bass. Enjoy!-Ken :)

kehut May 30, 2004 02:00

System edited: Changed out the stock tubes on the First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II with NOS Siemens 7308 Gold Pins. They improve sonics in all areas which was not expected. Most improved is soundstaging as well as midrange clarity, extension in both frequency extremes, and "air" in the presentation. These were added a few days ago... thus most likely have 60 hours or so on the tubes so far.

audiofankj May 30, 2004 01:32

System edited: Eighth Nerve Room Pack added to the listening room. Four corners added, four seams added, two echo's added. An additional seam was added at the ceiling on the front wall. This tweak was well worth the money invested. Midrange and treble seems most improved, as this allows more accurate decay and precise imaging at higher listening levels...

audiofankj May 28, 2004 02:17

System edited: Preamp change: Quicksilver Tube Linestage replaced with First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II. For those that know me, to say I am speechless would seem unbelievable. This preamp is stunning - especially since I am running stock tubes, power cord, and into the wall. This is how Emmanuel at First Sound recommends during break in... thus you are experiencing break in of the unit stock... after it has broken in sonically, he then recommends trying the power conditioner, new tubes, aftermarket power cords etc. Thus the unit has been playing for all of 26 hours now since arrival and it is truly an extremely pleasant suprise! I will post sonic changes after the recommended 200 hours of break in, NOS tubes, power cable swap, etc.

audiofankj May 21, 2004 02:02

Kirt,
Thanks for the information. Very well written!

lak May 18, 2004 14:51

Excellent description of the sonics of your system, Kirk. It is evident the passion you have for music and you're proud and happy with your system as well you should be. I'm happy for you. Maybe you 'should' get into reviewing. I was just as impressed( if not more so) with your write -up than with most of today's "high-end" reviewers. Enjoy your system, my friend, and watch out for the "upgrade-itis" bug!

sherod May 18, 2004 01:24

Larry,

Let me state that I feel there was a definate system mismatch for some reason or another with the RSA Poiema's in my system. Where? What? I have no idea. I know they are quality cabling that bring the perfect balance to many people I have emailed and have tried many cables. In my system the Poiema's seemed to have an extreme live quality - in which I love. However, when there was any complex passage, or remotely complex passage the following happened (as best as I can describe) the instruments all sounded as if they were competing to be heard over one another. Another way I could describe it as if it was wired out of phase at the speaker. Or as I have heard some people describe an IC that had been "overcooked" on a cable cooker. Music that I have been very familiar with and have listened to for years, sounded compressed - or perhaps more accurately I found myself strugling to hear the lyrics, in cases in which I knew the songs by memory. It was the oddest thing. Piano solo, guitar solo, vocal solo sounded phenominal... add a few instruments it almost sounded like having the system turned up extremely loud in an eight foot square room with no room treatment.

I have owned older Synergistic Research in the past a few times, and knew what I was hearing (mismatch or not) was NOT how the system should sound. With the addition of the Resolution Reference X2 interconnects and the Resolution Referenece FX bi-wire there were improvements accross the board. When I say accross the board, I felt no area was left unimproved. The following areas were improved by the greatest margins:

-Soundstage: unbelievably wide and deep! Stage now expands past the boundary of my speakers and encroaches the side walls... most properly recorded music the entire soundstage seems much more expansive, while the lead vocalist is standing between the speakers, you can clearly hear the drummer 8 feet or so behind (even though the speakers are 30" from the rear wall)... extremely uncanny.

-Imaging: pinpoint. anywhere. did I mention pinpoint?

-Noise Floor: gone! I think this is due in large part to the X2 active shielding. However, minute details, nuances, subtle shifts in performance - such as breathing, etc. are all very palpable.

-Frequency Extremes: bass. bass is easily another octave deeper, yet retains all the composure of the recording. Very articulate and detailed, dilineated bass. Highs that have crystaline clarity without any edge. Midrange is acurate and whole. Just the right amount of body. It does not leave you wanting more, thinking it is lean, yet it is not overly embelished as some cables do...

-Overall Cohesiveness: I just added that term to overall try to convey what I think these cables allow the music to do. Each instrument has a place and sonic signature in the music, what these cables do well is integrate how the attack and decay is natural and intertwined with the other instruments. I wish I could better explain. To me some cables make it sound like 5 musicians on stage all playing trying to get you to notice their performance. To me these SR cables allow all 5 musicians to play together to notice their performance in regards to the WHOLE, or the sum of the music. You can still hear each instrument. However it is almost like the focus is on the music, not each instrument. Don't get me wrong - you can hear all of it. Detail, timbre, harmonics, attack, decay, etc. but it isn't one area calling attention to itself. I work in my office in an adjoining room to the listening room, and many times the music playing in the background just steals my attention... the music draws you in. Perhaps it adds the pace and rythmn along with the details. I hope this is somewhat explanatory. I am not a reviewer and don't always describe what I tend to hear the best. If there is any certain area you wish to ask me about - shoot. Or also feel free to send me an email.

Also FWIW, when I was talking to one of the technicians at Synergistic Research he mentioned the Resolution Reference was his favorite when I was inquiring as to "what do the more expensive cables bring to the table?" He mentioned that the higher priced cabling will give you increased detail, etc. however he felt at the expense of some of the musicality. He also went on to say Talon speakers use the Resolution Reference line exclusively at shows, etc - even though they could use the more expensive stuff, they feel the Res. Ref. line gives them everything. I am sure there was other info that I am not recalling as well. Again, if there is an area that you want to ask me about that I may have missed, or rambled over, let me know.
Happy listening.
Kirk

audiofankj May 17, 2004 22:24

Kirt,
What changes did you hear when you switched the Speaker cable and interconnects from Ridge Street Audio Poiema to Synergistic Research Resolution Reference X2 interconnects and Synergistic Research Resolution Reference FX bi-wire speaker cables?
Thanks…

lak May 17, 2004 13:23

System edited: All analog equipment sold. Music Hall mmf-7, Graham Slee phono amp, Cardas Neutral Ref. phono all sold. I am looking to upgrade turntables and am leaning toward the Nottigham Space Deck with Space arm. I am currently trying to determine which cartridge and phono amp for LO MC to go with. A Shelter 501 Mk 2 with EAR 834p (modified) combination as well as a Dynavector Karat 17D2 Mk 2 paired with a Dynavector P-75 phono preamp are the two combinations high on the list right now. Any suggestions as to cartridge match with Nottingham Space Deck with Space arm would be appreciated.

audiofankj May 16, 2004 01:39

Kirk,
I haven't heard the Blackbird, but I would tend to guess that when you audition a Gyro, Spacedeck & Scout, you'll hear a bigger than 10% improvement with all of them vs mmf7 w/blackbird. You can always put a Denon or other low$/high value cart on a better table, and upgrade later.
I'd recommend posting a question along these lines on the vinyl board.
TWL, DougDeacon, 4yanx, and many others will be able to give you excellent advice...
Cheers, Spencer

sbank May 09, 2004 19:07

Spencer-

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate the info on the Nottingham table. I am going to be visiting an analog shop that has Avid, Basis, Michell, Nottingham, Oracle, and VPI I think, perhaps a few more. I have also been speaking with the Cable Company and I have been told that the Sumiko Blackbird cartridge will mate very well with my Project 9 arm on my MMF-7. I was also told if I were to put the Blackbird on some of the other $2000 retail tables, I most likely only gain 10% increase in performance if that. So far all the advice they have given me has been spot on the money. Does this tend to sound accurate? Thanks again for the input.

audiofankj May 07, 2004 04:17