System edited: Continual improvements proceed. Dodd Audio preamp removed and replaced with the First Sound Audio, Paramount Mk II Special Edition preamp. First Sound has been inserted into the system and is commencing break in.

audiofankj October 01, 2008 21:54

System edited: BPT 3.5 Signature Plus line conditioner replaced with the Running Springs Audio newest top of the line D'mitri.

audiofankj August 15, 2008 03:14

Hey Tommy! Great to hear from you! As always it was a pleasure to speak with you on the phone today. I will give you a ring once I confirm what we discussed earlier.

Hey Ken - Thanks for chiming in. Since you last heard the system (the day after the demo's were replaced with new cabling) with 11 hours on it, I have continued to log some decent play time. I would imagine I am hearing the benefits of break in, however I am going to refrain from stating anything specific as I would love for you to stop by again soon, whether this weekend or next. As always, I appreciate your unbiased opinion.

LoL - thinking back... we have shared some equipment and listening sessions over the past several years or so, eh?

Let me know if you pull the trigger on the other amp you mentioned, I look forward to hearing your system that way too! Although I must admit, I am not sure we will prefer it over the current set up... :)

audiofankj June 11, 2008 02:55

Hi Sherod,

I will do so. I forgot to mention that Joe (of JPS Labs) did indeed send me a pair of the Aluminata power cords to demo.

As with all of my comparing and contrasting - I tend to want to only change one area at a time, and then let it break in so I have a baseline for comparisons.

However, I am eager to try them, and do look forward to doing so!

More to follow, as it occurs... Be well. :)

audiofankj June 09, 2008 02:10

Hey Art & Sherod!

I was just trying to update the system, and just noticed your replies.

Art, I think the beans are spilled! I was able to make my decisions based upon the majority of my system cabled with the "next to the top of the line" JPS Labs cabling and found sonic nirvana. Without a doubt.

I plunged and went with the JPS Labs Aluminata, their top of the line. Which in fact is the same conductor and topology as the Superconductor 3, but with the Aluminata shielding added. So there was no guessing on the sonics, only the additional benefits of a lowered noise floor, and shielding of any possible interference - which made it somewhat of a "no brainer" to me.

Fellow AudiogoN member Kehut stopped by yesterday and picked up some cabling to audition. He was able to get a brief listen with the new cabling. I won't speak for Ken, perhaps he will post a blurb - but what Ken heard was with a total of 11 hours on the new Aluminata cabling, all new interconnects and speaker cables...

I truly hope both of you, Art & Sherod are doing well. Try to stay cool in that Texas heat! I hope it isn't worse than here in Atlanta!

audiofankj June 09, 2008 02:07

Synergistic Research cabling out. JPS Labs, in!

As a few of you are aware, and briefly mentioned in the system thread over the past several months I have been diligently auditioning Interconnects & Speaker Cables.

While I have had very, very good cabling in my system before. It has not been until now that the sonic performance transcends mere "hifi" and allows absolute natural music portrayal.

At this time I am not certain how stellar it will finally become, as I am breaking in all JPS Aluminata I/C's & S/C's.

While auditioning the JPS Labs equipment, I used one Aluminata I/C, along with one Superconductor 3 I/C, combined with Superconductor 3 speaker cables. The Superconductor 3 is one step below the top of the line JPS Labs, the Aluminata. This combination of one Aluminata and two Superconductor 3's clearly outperformed my complete Synergistic Research Tesla Apex I/C with Tesla Precision Reference I/C and Tesla Apex speaker cables. Again, as stated above the Synergistic Research was very, very good. It was actually the best I had heard in my personal system until being blessed to audition the JPS Labs.

I am eager to hear how the full Aluminata system will sound once broken in. Since the combination of the Aluminata and Superconductor 3 surpassed the performance I had with the full Synergistic Research I am excited to see how the full top of the line JPS Labs truly compares with what I had as the full top of the line Synergistic Research.

At this time I have about 32 hours on the new Aluminatas.

As an aside note, lest anyone try to spin the facts above, I would like to confirm they are truly based upon sonics alone:

We were previously authorized dealers for Synergistic Research. We are currently authorized dealers for JPS Labs.

As some may say that would state the entire reason for my sonic landscape painted, however friends and audio acquaintances alike know that even though I am an authorized dealer for many lines, I will only place equipment in my system that is sonicaly the correct fit, and an improvement to me. Hence you will see several manufacturer lines in my system that we are not authorized resellers for; Porter Ports, BPT, Dodd Audio(now manufacturer direct), H2o Audio, Meadowlark Audio, JL Audio.

To add to that, the Dodd Battery Preamp and the AMR CD-77 units were both purchased as a consumer prior to me becoming a business partner for an audio dealer. Due to the performance of these mentioned units, we pursued them as component lines we wanted to represent.

I just want to be clear, as much as some people say it is idiotic for me to not have ALL gear in my system from lines that we carry, I am an audiophile at heart first, and I follow my ears. Shame on me?

As we add new companies to our dealership, I will continually compare and contrast equipment, and improve my system when possible.

It was not until now that I discovered there could be such a significant improvement over other fine cabling in the industry.

For those unfamiliar with the JPS Labs Aluminata series, Art Dudley's review in Stereophile stated, "The differences made by the JPS Aluminata products were by far the most drastic changes I've ever heard when going from one interconnect, speaker cable, or AC cord to another. Put a little more bluntly, I've never heard wire do this before." Art also ends with, "At the end of the day, all I can say is that the Aluminatas are, without a doubt and by a significant margin, the best audio cables I've used."

I concur with Art's findings.

audiofankj June 09, 2008 01:59

System edited: Synergistic Research, OUT. JPS Labs, IN!

audiofankj June 09, 2008 01:51

Wow - it has been some time... I have been comparing and contrasting various cable manufacturers over the past few months as well as trying some additional equipment.

I will update my system thread soon, and give more details as well... as I have found audio nirvana regarding cabling...

audiofankj June 06, 2008 21:30

Guido - Thanks for the spreadsheet. I am near 700 hours on the new preamp, near 500 hours on the power correction unit, and almost 250 hours on the new cabling. One modification is on the way back from a manufacturer and should arrive tomorrow. I am hoping to have the system stable for another week of break in and do a final evaluation on it next weekend.

Shadorne - Thanks for the tips on the sub integration. I would do something similar. I do not want over accentuated bass response or to muddy anything. I would not mind filling in the extreme lower octave, however not at the expense of anything less than perfect integration. At this point I have not attempted anything with the subs, as I am in the process of evaluating new cabling throughout the system as well as new preamp. I am going to get a handle on what sonic changes they bring about in the system. Once that is finalized I will be experimenting with the subs next.

audiofankj May 09, 2008 03:45

Hey Guido - if you have a magic spreadsheet that helps expidite the break in process, send it over!

In the meantime, I will keep the equipment powered on and the music spinning!

audiofankj April 13, 2008 16:46

Potential system changes:

Yesterday received delivery of my Jade Audio Vermeil Bi Wire Speaker Cables. They are inserted into the system and being broken in. I am awaiting delivery of a couple sets of the Hybrid Interconnects. After being fully broken in the decision will be made upon whether they stay or are returned with the manufacturer's 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

Also delivered yesterday was the Jeff Rowland Capri preamp. I will dutifully log hours on the unit and compare/evaluate its sonic merits with my current preamp of choice, the Dodd Audio Battery powered preamp.

audiofankj April 13, 2008 02:04

Just a quick update... the H2o Special Edition Mono's have right around 400 hours on them at this point.

This should be around "half" way through break in - if the same amount of time is required as my old pair of H2o Sig Mono's.

I lost some time as we just returned from a two week vacation in which the system was shut down.

I can state with confidence the Special Edition Monoblocks sound much better, with less break in time than the previous Signature monoblocks in my past. I recall the older version had a slight midrange recession until close to 800 hours or so. That has not been the case at all during this break in.

Well, the system is back up and running and break in continues.

Potentially a few other tweaks to the system upcoming as well.

audiofankj April 11, 2008 02:10

Hi Vince,

As for some of the changes in the H2o Special Edition Mono's versus the Signature...

The Signature used a 800vA transformer per monoblock. The Special Edition is upgraded to a 1KvA transformer per mono.

Henry states both the quantity & quality of input caps, input coupling caps, output caps, and output coupling caps are all improved... all voiced per Henry, as for type and sizes of capacitors; this information was requested to be kept proprietary...

Internal wiring and other tweaks and modifications are also proprietary upgrades.

That is about all the info on the Special Edition improvements over the Signature mono's.

As for NOS, yes my AMR CD-77 does utilize NOS (New Old Stock) tubes as what NOS is commonly referred to.

However, I have a feeling you meant non over sampling as NOS... If so, yes, the AMR CD-77 has several options with filtering and you can hear them all by switching through them on the fly via the remote. As the company prefers & recommends, I use mine without up/over sampling. I feel this closest represents the sonics achieved by a good turntable or vinyl.

Yes Vince - I do recall all of the grueling time required for break in on my old H2o Sig. monos. I have already started the amps playing, and hopefully 6 weeks or so from now will have a good barometer where things stand sonically.

audiofankj March 02, 2008 22:01

No Vince, no Fire on the way. I auditioned it a couple years back and it wasn't my cup of tea. It may not have been the production model, so my thoughts may not relate to the current Fire being offered.

I will try to get the details from Henry. I know he used bypass caps on the input section as well as the output section. I also think the types of caps were different in the respect to what sonic quality Henry was trying to achieve in each section of the monoblocks...

I do have the Art Audio Alana preamp here on demo as well as my Dodd Audio preamp.

I am also comparing some top of the line interconnects and speaker cables in the upcoming weeks.

audiofankj March 01, 2008 21:16

System edited: New amplifiers have arrived and inserted into the system. They are beginning the long break in process. Amplifiers are the latest top of the line, all out effort from Henry Ho of H2o Audio. These are the M250SE - Special Edition monoblocks in which he improves upon the former top of the line M250SA - Signature monoblocks. There were several improvements/changes Henry has implimented, larger transformers, higher quality caps, wiring, etc. I don't have all the specifics. More to follow.

audiofankj March 01, 2008 04:36

Vince & Tommy -

The player has been breaking in for almost 48 hours as of now...

The sound remains effortless, organic, liquid, expansive...

I was told the unit may have 200-300 hours of burn in on it prior to shipping from the factory as they are burning units in for 2-3 weeks while doing QC on them...

Thus far, I am very satisfied. Will update as things progress...

Tommy - you know the door is open for you to stop by for a listen, cotton balls not necessary however. :)

audiofankj October 21, 2007 20:58

Thanks Vince, my oversight... as I didn't realize I failed to mention what the "boat anchor" is...

Today the AMR CD-77 which was ordered back in late May was delivered. The shipping weight was 106 pounds... thus was fun to lug upstairs to the listening room... also the reason for the affectionate term of "boat anchor."

The unit is now running with about 9 hours on it, and is extremely promising with the sonic landscape that is being portrayed at this point.

Will update as the unit breaks in.

audiofankj October 20, 2007 02:54

System edited: The "boat anchor" has landed... installed into the system and burning in...

audiofankj October 20, 2007 01:53

"on vehicle for delivery" ...

audiofankj October 19, 2007 13:30

Thanks for all the compliments. The wife and I leave on vacation and I come back to all this activity!

Vince, I will shoot you an email about what will improve the sound of your system. Talk to you soon.

audiofankj October 17, 2007 00:06

Sherod,

I hope all is well with you. Fusion Audio is a relatively new company, whose distributor is nearby my home. I have had the luxury of beta testing some of their power cords prior to their finalizing the product line. Since then, I have had every one of their power cords swapped in and out of my system. As of now, I don't think they have a website up yet. The performance to price ratio on these cords is phenominal. Shoot me an email if you want more specific details, ie. comparison versus other power cords etc.

audiofankj September 04, 2007 00:41

System edited: Power cord changes. After trying a couple of Fusion Audio's Enchanters on my monoblocks (replacing Purist Audio Design Dominus Rev. C's) I came to the conclusion I wanted to audition more... after comparing against the Purist Audio Anniversary Contego, and another Dominus Rev. C, both have been replaced with Fusion Audio cords. A Fusion Audio Impulse was placed on the front end, and a 20A IEC on the BPT 3.5 Sig. Plus.

audiofankj September 03, 2007 03:43

Vince - Good to hear they are in and breaking in. I read a few of the reviews. Don't make any judgements until about 600+ hours of break in on those V-CAPS!

Larry - I am humbled. Thanks for the kind words. Personal email sent. You are welcome anytime. I would recommend after a few more weeks, as I am limping along with an iPod for a source at this time as my new front end delivery has been delayed...

Sherod - Yeah, I will enjoy a movie or two a month with the wife. When I do get some time to relax I still find myself listening 80-85% of the time with the projector off. I wanted to maximize the seating, thus went for eight comfy. :)

Albert - Thanks as well. I really need to try and get some better photos. I just picked up a new digital camera and with the lighting being recessed, the front wall and ceiling dark chocolate - does not make for the most representative photo... unless of course you happen to know someone who knows how to use a camera! ? :)

Another few weeks and the AMR CD-77 should be landing.

audiofankj August 04, 2007 03:31

Hi Rumadian. Thank you for the kind words. Some of my system thread information needed a good "dusting off" and I think I updated the majority of it.

The Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's are an absolutely fine sounding speaker in my mind. I am still holding out hope Patrick McGinty will resurface with a continuation of his fine work.

As for the H2o's, I spoke with Henry a few weeks back and he stated he had made a pair of Signature Mono's with the V-Caps and it was not much less than astounding. I find this interesting as Henry is very reserved in his explanations, and just how well the pair of Signature Mono's I owned worked! This truly must be something I need to hear again... soon perhaps.

Please keep me posted how your H2o sounds after a few hundred hours have passed. :)

audiofankj July 22, 2007 05:09

System edited: System pictures and equipment list updated on the virtual system thread.

audiofankj July 22, 2007 04:59

Hi Vince,

Yeah, I have tried various caps in many different types of components over the years.

I think some of it is the caps and some of it is dependant upon the implimentation of the caps in the design and associated electronics in the circuit.

Just thought you may want to speak with Henry about his thoughts in comparison to the signature model you have.

Happy listening!

audiofankj July 12, 2007 03:55

Hi Vince, from what Henry had to say about the V-Caps, it sounds like you could be missing quite a lot! Make sure to give him a call. They must really fit into his design to have him think so highly of the upgrade. Let me know what you hear.

I have the AMR CD-77 on order, and am patiently awaiting its arrival.

Here is a link to a review on 6 moons.

Have an enjoyable 4th!

audiofankj July 04, 2007 15:57

Hi Sherod - Yeah, I am somewhere near the end of getting the system rebuilt as of now. I have decided to go with the latest Synergistic Research Tesla series interconnects and speaker cables. They are astounding - especially given the current state of my system in flux. I am still trying some different power cords, and will most likely await arrival of the new front end. Hopefully it will be here this month!

Mark it is always good to hear from you! I look forward to picking your brain on NOS tubes for the Dodd 120's now that things are starting to wind down with the major changes.

Vince - Yep - back to my Meadowlark Audio Blue Heron 2's. I was hoping to see Pat McGinty resurface by now, but it doesn't look like that is the case. I have had very good luck with the performance of these speakers. Speaking of the other big fish you mention - I spoke with Henry a few weeks ago and he mentioned he made a pair of Sig Mono's with the new V-Caps and the improvement was *not* subtle. You may want to give him a call and arrange to send your pair in for a "tune up." :) The cd player I have on order should give the top of the line AN front end gear a run for its money... time will tell.

Art - We definately have to burn a few minutes on the phone again soon. I have been working 60 hour weeks on average with the new job - which isn't all bad as I like the company, the position, and the people. The time flies by, however not much is left for tweaking and typing! Thus far the BH2's are singing with the Dodd gear. I am still awaiting my new front end - the AMR CD-77. Once that arrives I will swap some NOS tubes into the preamp and amps as well. Audition and settle on a few power cords, and then most likely look into a music server I can feed into the AMR.

Latest change - added a pair of Sistrum SP-101's under my Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's. As I rebuilt the room and system for dual purpose 2-channel and home theater, I set the second row upon a riser to be able to see over the front row... in my infinite wisdom *cough* I somehow forgot that would elevate the listening position. With the addition of the SP-101 platforms I have raised the tweeter height back to where it should be in relation to seating position. The sonics may also benefit from the stands. They have only been installed for a couple of hours as of now. The mids and highs seem more articulate, however the bottom end seems to be leaner... this may change after a day or two. Once the wife sees the platforms they may be going up for sale as well. They aren't the last word in stability! Heh.

Will have to check in on this thread more often. Have a great Fourth of July!

audiofankj July 04, 2007 03:46

Added a couple of photos - hard to get the digital to take decent photos with limited light. (Ken you will have to bring your Leica over!)

Just added a current photo of the front of the system. Difficult to see due to lighting... Will try to grab some better photos soon.

audiofankj June 02, 2007 01:45

System edited: Back in November I had made a decision to persue a new speaker venture that I felt was going to make an enormous impact at it's price point in the market. I still do believe they will be an overachiever at more than their retail price point. However, after more than six months of patiently waiting the release of these new speakers - the decision was made to move in another direction. The refund request was graciously granted. A sincere thank you to an un-named gentleman. As luck would have it, the local buyer of my original pair of Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's called and asked if I would be interested in purchasing them - I asked for the right of refusal if they ever decided to sell them. It was a 'no brainer' to me. I have owned several speakers that have perhaps slightly excelled in one or two areas better than the Meadowlark Audio Blue Heron 2's, however at the expense of losing in another area. They are once again happily set up, and making music. I have made the decision to swap around some cabling as well and have just received new cabling last Friday... that has been placed into the system and is breaking in now. New speaker cabling, and new interconnects. I will most likely be playing with power cables next. I will try to take some photos of the room changes and get them posted soon.

audiofankj May 28, 2007 02:14

Changes in the works. Should have some of them posted soon - perhaps this weekend.

audiofankj May 23, 2007 20:11

Another six weeks have passed, and still awaiting my pair of main speakers... will update with room photos once they arrive.

audiofankj April 20, 2007 12:00

I have finally spent a few minutes adding some of my current gear to the system thread while stuck in a hotel on the road tonight... I hope to have the virtual system "cleaned up" and updated in full soon.

Albert, yes when building the house, I wanted to make certain there was some 'built in' items for diffraction. In addition to the rear built in shelving for vinyl, we have an exposed beam coffered ceiling in the room as well. Now that the room is dual purpose 2 Channel / Home Theater the rear shelving is now covered with heavy velvet-like draperies. (such a shame...) I hope to have some photos online after the speakers finally arrive.

Remy, thanks for the well wishes. The move to an 'integrated' HT with 2 Channel was as unplanned as the career change. Thus, when I sold off most of my old system, the wife and I decided to make the room dual purpose as I wasn't planning on having too much wrapped into the gear financially. Well, we were Blessed and I ended up with a great position relatively quickly and most of the funds that were from the old system were re-invested into the dual purpose system...

Sherod, it has been quite some time since we have chatted. Hope you are doing well. The new career has been a blessing and I am enjoying it. It has kept me very busy, and we have only been able to watch a couple of movies thus far. As far as the Electraglide cords, I am only familiar with the ones I have owned... which include the Ultra Man, Mini Khan Plus, Ultra Khan II (think that was the name), Epiphany, and the Epiphany X's. I have no experience with any of the new line, thus I am unfamiliar with it.

Joey, I am planning on moving up to a nice set of speakers. However, since they are in development- time will tell how they stack up against previous speakers I have owned as well as their competition. Some big hitting people are involved, and I am eager to finally take posession of them. As for a CD player recommendation with the Summits, based upon your criteria my Esoteric X-01 Limited Edition was spot on what you described you are looking for. It should be, as it retails for $4K more than a pair of Summits. There are many great players out there, it really depends on the price point you want to focus on.

More to follow. Hopefully sooner than later!

audiofankj March 09, 2007 03:28

Hi Ken! Hope you and the family are well! Yes, you will definately have to come over sometime soon. Perhaps, even bring along your new camera and do the equipment and room some justice? :) The new speakers are still "pending" as to arrival, and I am not certain if that is two or six weeks away. Otherwise the entire system is together. I am using a little pair of Quad 21L's at the moment. Decent sounding speakers! Give me a call one evening, and we will have to get together soon. I am up in Rhode Island this week, enjoying this heat wave!

Hi Albert! Thanks for getting me that additional Porter Port in a hurry! It arrived just in time for the electricians... that one went into the ceiling for the projector. Thanks for the compliments on the room. It is actually quite different now, or at least appearance is. I have painted the ceiling and front wall a chocolate brown, and the rear built in shelving for vinyl has chocolate drapes (that match the side drapes) with some acoustic treatment behind. Acoustic treatment really couldn't be ignored, as I am employing a pair of JL Audio f113 subwoofers for the bottom end. (review link here). The room has also had the ceiling fan removed (projector) and replaced with recessed lighting... there has been a riser added for the second row of seating as well. I will have to get some photos up soon. All in all, I think it is still looking alright...

audiofankj January 31, 2007 04:24

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the advice. That is exactly what I have done. However since my last post in early September, I have had much transpire with my career. I have changed careers, and have jumped in with both feet, however I have not kept this page up to date. I will have to update it soon.

The photos on the front page are no longer as they seem. Almost all of the listed audio gear has been sold. Home theater is now in place. Projector, screen, integrated music, as well as HD DirectTV and such.

The only thing I will warn people about a dual purpose Music/HT system is the seating (with dual rows of recliners) may not be precisely optimal placement of the "sweet spot" for audio playback. This may or may not make a difference, as my new pair of main speakers are set to ship in a few weeks... once they are in place and everything is breaking in, I will most likely update this page.

As much as I was an audiophile, and remain a music lover, a well done Home Theater takes a movie from an OK experience to an intense experience you are absolutely immersed within.

Hope to have more updates soon.

audiofankj January 27, 2007 04:31

Very interesting Grant. I pulled the site up after a google search last night and read most of the site. Definately worth looking into. I like the fact there are many choices of input tubes.

However, I have never owned an OTL tube amp, so my experience with their "house sound" is nil.

As for the options - there remains the quandry - the H20 Signature Mono's drive everything I have had with them with and iron fisted grip, yet delicate with the details. I could imagine the Dodd 120's (from what I hear) will also drive the speakers great (for a tube amp...) and then we have the Moscode - the "best" of both... I am certain each of these amps, married with the "right" preamp should be close to sonic nirvana. However, much of this hobby does come down to system matching and personal preference.

It would now appear there is yet another "contender" to audition in the amp department... looks to be anything but a boring fall/winter season!

audiofankj September 04, 2006 12:52

Hey Grant - actually we have touched base now and then, and I do think he mentioned he is hoping to audition one of the Moscode amps... as for his time frame, I am uncertain. That was the first I have heard of it. I will have to do some digging... any directions to point my shovel?

audiofankj September 04, 2006 05:10

Vince - very interesting... our home is one of those "classic revival architecture" homes... I knew I wanted a type of coffered ceiling, yet this design was suggested to us as to what fit the period of the time.

J- I was unable to audition the HT3's prior to purchase. I was able to correspond with several owners whom have had speakers I have owned in the past. Their interaction with similar gear and such was quite insightful. As I became aware of "standard" retail speaker pricing (ie. a $12,000 pair of Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's cost a dealer $6,000, and Meadowlark about $3,000) I began to look for a speaker that was highly regarded without needing the 400% markup to support a dealer network! I am all for companies making a profit, don't get me wrong... but to charge an end user $12,000 for what costs roughly $3,000 is highway robbery! I am sure there are other associated costs and such, however it is difficult enough to convince the better half to spend this amount of money on gear. If I am going to spend the money, I want the highest % of the expenditure going toward the product! Thus, the search was on for a manufacturer direct product, that came with none other than stellar references. I was lucky enough to speak with people whom have directly compared them to other speakers I have owned in the past. Not to mention the Salk HT3's were most often compared to the Joseph Audio Pearls, and other speakers in the $15-22K range, yep- I was curious. Granted talk is talk, right? After the interest was gained, a few calls were made to Jim Salk. Jim is such a phenominal gentleman! All questions (hours of them) were answered patiently, and honestly. Jim went out of his way to entertain my obsessions, and I sincerely thank him for it!

Hi Alan! Congrats on those one of a kind Summits! They sound as good as they look! That is for certain. In my room I had the settings down 2.75 and down 4 or 4.25... I can't recall which was the 25 Hz and 50 Hz knob... if looking at the speaker from the rear, the knob on the left was the lower value at the -2.75 or so, and the one on the right was down more. If you go to the martinloganowners.com forum, there is a thread as to whom has theirs set at what. Be forewarned, it was essentially useless, as many varied from +4 or 6 to -4 or -6... as not only does the room play an enormous role, some people use them mainly for home theater rather than music - which I also think affects the overall settings.

Grant - Hope you are doing well! Yes, I agree on the head spinning! Now, was that the last 6 months, or the next? :)
I am looking forward to trying the Dodd gear on order... I have also spoken to Henry Ho of H20 and have to try his new Fire preamp, especially with the feedback I am hearing from people whome have tried the prototype. At least it shouldn't be a cold winter, eh?

I finally updated the system thread for the most part. Almost all power cabling is now (has been for a few months) Purist Audio Design Dominus & Anniversary AC (Esoteric only). This is somewhat permanent as power cords seem extremely synergistic with the component they are connected to. As mentioned, I have some Dodd Audio tube gear on order, and will also be trying the H20 Fire preamp. I am holding on to enough of the Electraglide Epiphany X's to compare with the Purist Audio Dominus' on the new gear.

Total hours logged on the new Salk Sound HT3's is now 481 - although about half have been at low volumes overnight.

audiofankj September 04, 2006 04:48

Hi Sherod & Vince - hope you are both faring well in audio land!

I modified my system description, but there is a section that summarizes the last few months, that I thought I would copy here to the thread:

We have recently moved into a new home, in which my loving wife allowed me to dedicate the 2nd floor bonus room (16'W x 22'L x 9'H) into a listening room. We had the rear wall configured with built in bookshelves for the vinyl albums, as well as pull out drawers for cd storage. Exposed beam coffered ceiling to help break up standing waves, as well as a double stagger stud wall behind the speakers (shared wall with master bedroom). There is also info in this thread about the "rebuild" of that entire wall...

With the excitement and joy of a dedicated listening room, came the room anomalies that plagued the music reproduction. A great pair of speakers (Meadowlark Audio Blue Heron 2's) were displaced in an attempt to move to a speaker with adjustable bass (Martin Logan Summit). As the Martin Logan's were on order - I became aware that adjustable bass will help, yet not fix the problem... thus started the "wall renovation project." As luck would have it, the room response was improved, however I had been struggling with placement of the Martin Logan Summits. Once finally "dialed in" when you would listen at moderate volumes, you would over excite the room a bit... I tried (for months) to get "permission" to hang drapes behind the Summits - the same ones on the side wall... but no green light. Alas, it was a festering concern that the room wasn't treated properly for the Summits to perform optimally. If they couldn't be allowed to perform their best, the search began for their replacements, and the Summits went up for sale.

As of a couple of weeks ago, I received delivery of the Salk Sound HT3's. They are currently breaking in, and I will be working on room placement and positioning in the upcoming weeks. I am looking forward to getting the system back to a "stable" point!

I still hope to get around to changing all the ancillary equipment on my page regarding power cords and such.

audiofankj September 03, 2006 13:34

Well - I didn't get around to modifying the power cord updates, as I entered the info 3 times on the new speakers... I have having poor internet connectivity tonight and kept timing out... I will have to update more of the system thread later.

However, the new Salk Sound HT3's were inserted into the system back on August 22nd, and have been constantly singing since - going through "break in."

The photo's posted of both the speaker & system didn't turn out well at all - my better quality digital camera had dead batteries.

As of earlier in the week, I am still hearing refinements in presentaion from the speakers - mostly improved soundstaging and dynamics, as well as bass extension.

I am going to let them play for another week or two before any critical listening and posting of impressions...

audiofankj September 03, 2006 04:38

System changes - hope to post this weekend... have been swapping various power cords in and out, as well as a new pair of speakers breaking in...

audiofankj September 02, 2006 02:30

Arizonapeakfitness - the room treatments I have in the corners are the Eighth Nerve room pack... very cost effective and quite effective. Well worth the $$$ invested for the sonic return.

To better answer your question - I purchased the Eighth Nerve room pack when I was still in the old house... the listening room was a spare bedroom - 11.5 ft. x 12 ft. or so... they did help immensely - I have the "seams" (I think that is what they are called) for the corners, as well as the triangle corner traps for along the ceiling... those eight peices for a couple of hundred dollars really helped tame some slap echo and reflectivity in that room.

I can not comment as to how much they helped in the current room, as they were installed before the equipment was... :)

I also essentially have floor to ceiling (maybe 10" from the ceiling) drapes that cover about 2/3 of one side wall... most likely about 12 feet or so... I am certain that helps to some degree, as well as the built in vinyl storage shelves in the back and the fake ficus trees...

The fake ficus trees actually made a very noticable improvement on all of my speakers when placed in the corner behind the speaker. Perhaps it was the diffusion... However, with that being said, my current Martin Logan Summits are the only speakers in which I have preferred the sound without the ficus trees in the corner... I guess the case I am trying to make is that a few $70 fake ficus trees can make a good sonic improvement. That is with the right speakers... as always try and experiment - but let your ears be the ultimate decision maker in your room.

I really didn't go all that far with my room design. There are many systems on here that have been assisted by design/acoustical engineers and Rives Audio etc. I happened to be able to have our "bonus" room made into a dedicated listening room... mostly through builder requests up front when the home was being built. At that I ended up tearing down the wall for repairs... Essentially it was just a bonus room - with exposed beam ceiling (to help break up standing waves), five dedicated 20A lines on the top of the breaker box, and then the built in book cases and shelving on the rear wall. Don't get me wrong - I love the room, and am extremely fortunate. At the same time, there are many here that have specific measured sonicly designed rooms that are astounding. I am certain just about any gear placed in some of those would sound incredible.

Hey Vince -

Have you been using to much "Herbal Essence" shampoo again?

;P

audiofankj August 12, 2006 03:37

Thanks for the comments gentlemen...

Guido - all great comments, that I am certain I would have performed... IF I hadn't traded in my old cd player (the Capitole Mk II SE) on the new Esoteric X-01 LE. As for the 19" B&W TV - that would have to go into another room at this point... still a dedicated 2 channel room for now.

Amperidian - I am glad to hear the Epiphany X is working well for you. I agree with you on your comment of "personal choice of flavor" - especially given when you get to the top tier of performance of AC cords. They all seem to have their benefits, and weaknesses. I have come to find, along with personal preference, I am now thinking more along the lines of "what cord mates the best / brings out the best attributes to the component it is powering" ... still the cable swapping game here and there. Never much fun. I have also come to realize that it is unusual that ALL of one type of power cord doesn't always end up in the right balance. Thanks for the invitation... if I manage to have any travels planned your way, I will drop you a line! Don't get me wrong about the Esoteric vs. the Capitole Mk II SE either - that is an astounding player. What HT setup? :)

Vince - Hope all is well with you. Yes, I am aware of the revisions Henry has made to his H20 Signature Mono's. They definately improved the mono's in areas that I didn't expect were possible. I will also be auditioning his Fire preamp sometime in the future, as well as others. At least that is the game plan at this point in time...

Other than that, not too much new. Kehut and I plan to get together soon to listen to both systems. We both seem to be extremely busy. It will hopefully happen soon.

audiofankj July 22, 2006 02:42

Sherod,

Thanks for the link. I do think I could integrate the 2 channel into HT and have very good sonics, I just don't want to have all this $$$ tied up into an integrated HT system. If I were to go that route, I would downsize considerably.

Yeah, I understand about keeping the wife happy. Don't get me wrong, she is not unhappy. It is just the "listening room" is more of a one person (me) enjoyment, opposed to a proposed home theater which in discussion seems more appealing to her. Otherwise, all is fine... just started thinking about it, the money I could get out of the system, and have more "together time"... not a bad proposition - all and all.

Unfortunately I decided to sit down for half an hour or so and listen to some tunes. It has been quite some time since I have sat down for more than a brief "flip through the first 20 seconds of each track on the cd."

Into the Esoteric went Patricia Barber's Modern Cool, track after track - the sound was superb. Much better than I remembered this current group of components ever sounding. Unexpectedly pleased as I wasn't expecting it to sound so "tweaked" or "solid"... in went Di Meola, Ponte, & Clark trio Rite of Strings, again the sound was stellar... then in went Midnight Oil, another gear change to Sonya Kitchell, on to The Vanity Project, Sting, Josh Groban, and finally Natalie Merchant...

I had to pull myself away and come write that the chances of a home theater conversion just minimalized significantly. Over 3 hours went by like a blink. I really haven't had that type of experience with cd's since way back when I first started getting into the high end equipment. No matter what genre, or recording quality I threw in, it was engaging.

As to where the differences came from? The obvious culprit would be the Esoteric X-01 Limited. However, that is using a new Purist Audio Anniversary Edition AC Cord. Coupled with that I have trimmed some adjustments to the active bass settings on the Martin Logan Summit woofer eq's. I still need to work a bit more on the bass integration, but it is getting there.

Overall the Esoteric (if all can be attributed to the player alone... if not, then the Esoteric with Purist AC) reveals much more than the Audio Aero Capitole Mk II. It just seems to "dig deeper" into the recording. Not more hash or grunge, but more information. Small neuances in the background, as well as attack and decay of instruments, coupled with extremely expansive soundstage... the one word that kept coming to mind about the Esoteric X-01 Limited's presentation of the different cd's is "pure." I know, not an audiophile term, nor is it one I have used before. At least I don't think so... "Pure" just kept coming to mind, whenever I would pick up on a string passage, snare, brass, etc. etc. It was more than the attack, more than the decay, more than the timbre... when I state "pure" to me that conjures the inclusion of all of the above adjectives... you have the correct attack, you have the correct decay, with superb timbre, and resonance... I sat there pondering one note after another as the next would almost startle with its clarity.

I hope this holds true tomorrow. If the ears are playing tricks on me, home theater is on its way. If this continues, how it sounded tonight, a black and white 19" is good for the other room. I won't be watching it.

audiofankj July 15, 2006 03:19

Hi Sherod,

Patience? Honestly the word isn't in my vocabulary! The wife and I had my family visiting from out of state for vacation the week of the 4th... thus the week before and now, the week after has consumed much time with work and travel. It is also summer, thus much time has been spent outside with the wife and such, rather than sitting solo in the listening room.

As for which power cord is better/best ? So far, it really depends upon which component it is on. There are some generalizations I think I have put my thumb upon, however, I have not done enough A/B comparisons to state just as of yet.

You want to hear some audiophile sacrelidge? The wife and I have been discussing the dissasembly and sale of my entire system and turn the room into a Home Theater room.
Trust me, I do NOT want to lessen the sonic abilities of what I have been tweaking for years, let alone sell it. However, the situation is the wife doesn't enjoy listening to music like I do. We do enjoy watching the occasional TV program together and movies. Thus, this is more of a stereo room = "selfish, time alone" versus home theater = "family time" - Now don't get me wrong, my wife isn't brow beating me, just a suggestive hint here and there how nice it would be to spend more time together enjoying the room. I do understand her point, and thus the thought has been festering in my mind.

So at this time, I hope I can manage not to fall off the wagon!

I may be entertaining the idea of a home theater room / setup and weighing the pros and cons. At this time I would say it is about 80% leaning toward keeping the stereo room and nixing the HT idea.

audiofankj July 13, 2006 01:37

Guido, do you mean I don't have to wait for 2,000 hours to be sure? :)

In all honesty, I thought the Esoteric had plenty of hours on it a couple of hundred back. At that point however, I had a new power cord on the Esoteric with only a few hundred hours on it. I always try to give at least a couple of hundred hours more than what is recommended for break in to ensure I am actually hearing the component sound its potential best.

With that being said, I would imagine there has been more than enough hours put onto the new gear.

Final verdict? I have not conclusively decided exactly in which areas I feel the X-01 Limited bests the Capitole Mk II. This is not due to anything other than I have not had more than a couple very brief listening sessions. It seems that lately there has been little time to sit down for more than 10 minutes or so.

I would really like to sit down and extensively listen to a few favorite albums before any conclusions.

I will state that the Esoteric seems to have an apparently wider soundstage as well as slightly deeper. There is also a much greater sense of "ease" with this player, more authoritative perhaps. Again, all of this is really more of a first impression. I do plan to sit down and listen soon - however that has been planned for the past couple of weeks as well.

audiofankj July 12, 2006 02:03

Hi Sherod - Well, I am not certain if I have found the "best" combination of power cords or not yet, as I have been logging hours to burn in the new Esoteric X-01 Limited as well as the Purist Anniversary AC cord going to it.

As of now the X-01 Limited has over 1,200 hours and the Purist Anniversary has a hair over 700 hours. I haven't listened in over two weeks and was actually quite suprised at how "right" it sounded when I sat down earlier.

Perhaps it was the time away, perhaps break in, most likely a bit of both. I am going to put in a few familiar favorite albums and see how it goes.

Now that everything seems to be broken in (without question) I may just try swapping cords again here and there.

Almost cringe at the thought... :)

Hope all is well for you!

audiofankj July 08, 2006 02:55

Well... hours continue to pass by and break in continues on both the X-01 Limited as well as the recently added Purist Anniversary AC cord.

The X-01 Limited is just shy of 800 hours, in which I have heard is the "magic" number for most, concerning sounding good...

The Purist AC is a bit shy of 240 hours.

Truth be told... The system is sounding really good. If things continue to refine and/or improve I won't mind. :) However, the sound is probably the most pleasing the system has been since moving into the new listening room.

If you happen to be reading this Ken, give it another week or so of play time for good measure, and you will have to make a trip over with some of your familiar media and give me a second opinion!

audiofankj June 18, 2006 23:08

Hi Ken,

LoL - Yeah, the ever migrating fake ficus trees... They really seemed to help behind the Blue Heron 2's. However, everytime I place them in the corners behind the Martin Logan Summits, it just doesn't seem to sound as good as without them. Perhaps we will have to move them around when you stop over next time and get a second opinion!

Captive "zip" cord? Sounds like heaven to me now! This cable swapping/comparison gets a bit tedious...

I bet your system is singing and you are enjoying the music, rather than comparing cables!

The java is always ready for you! Espresso, Cappucino, Latte, Coffee, etc. you name it, if it has caffeine in it, it is most likey in the house! Give the system another week or two to break in the latest cord and you will have to bring the golden ears over for some critique! Look forward to talking with you soon.

audiofankj June 10, 2006 03:17

Wow, a bit of activity for early summer... Thanks Sherod. I am going through the motions, however time will tell where it all shakes out... Hopefully pleasing.

Hi Grant, thanks for the info on the Ferrox version. I wish I had that info prior to purchasing all Fluid versions... Good to know your experiences with the Ferrox. Yes as for the comparisons, perhaps I should have been more clear, but I was over magnifying the differences and exaggerating them for comparison purposes between the power cords.

Hi Guido, yeah I have a handful of the Dominus Fluid Revision C, as well as an Aqueous Anniversary, with the Epiphany's for comparison.

The Purist Anniversary AC was delivered at 6 p.m. this evening and inserted into the system to start breaking in. It is a bit of a "monster" :) 2m and the box from FedEx stated 9.4 lbs. About the same diameter as the Dominus, but quite a bit heavier than my fluid versions.

Thanks again Grant for the clarification of your experiences between the Dominus versions. It is too bad I wasn't able to compare the two, as the Anniversary with contego may/will be an entirely different animal in itself.

Will try to be better about posting updates as things progress...

audiofankj June 09, 2006 01:35

System edited: Swapped some photos of the listening room. I still need to revise the blurb about the system in the intro... another day...

audiofankj June 09, 2006 01:08

Tvad,

Thank you, and please no apologies! :) I had heard the Ferox has better extension at the extremes, however didn't have the "liquid" midrange of the Fluid version. I guess finding the right combination would make the most sense...

I'm not sure you caught this through all my rambling on the previous post, but I do have one of the new Purist Anniversary AC power cords on the way... actually FedEx should have it here in the next couple of hours... This is the new contego with both the fluid and the ferox... I am eager to get some hours on it and see how it compares...

Grant, again don't ever hesitate to jump in, I always appreciate your insight and advice!

audiofankj June 08, 2006 21:30

Thanks Guido. The Esoteric is finally starting to break out of its "shell" and show what it is capable of sonically... I look forward to hear how it will sound in a few weeks.

As for the Epiphany X, yes and no. I got caught up in the "Purist Audio Dominus" power cord "destroys all" thread here on audiogon a few weeks back and ordered some of those cords to compare. My ears won't allow me to aggree with the statements made on how the "Dominus" crushes other power cords in all aspects.

One has to remember different systems will of course have different sonic signatures... (obviously) as well as each individual component will most likely have one or two cords out there that are a superb match sonically for that piece of equipment.

While I do feel the Dominus excels in areas versus the Epiphany X, it also does not compare in other areas. For example the Dominus has a very seductively textured and organic midrange, compared to the Epiphany X. The Dominus also however, sounds quite closed in on the treble and cymbal extension. This is a broad generalization that has been magnified for comparison purposes - and varies upon which equipment has which cord... but this pretty much holds true. The Dominus AC cords I have are the latest Rev. C with fluid.

Don't get me wrong, both are superb cords. Both have stregnths, both have weaknesses. At least in my system.

It gets better though. I have been auditioning/comparing the Purist Audio Dominus Rev. C Fluid, as well as the Purist Audio Aqueous Anniversary AC, versus the Epiphany, and Epiphany X's that I own. Today or tomorrow FedEx is to deliver a Purist Anniversary AC... That I am hoping is the best of both worlds.

I am in love with the seductive midrange of the Dominus, however all Dominus in my system makes the top seem rolled off and a bit less transparent than I would like.

I love the transparency and speed the Epiphany X allows, yet all Epiphany X in the system sometimes leaves the midrange a bit less organic/seductive than I would like, howver seemingly with much better pace/rythmn.

The Anniversary Aqueous seems to have the midrange organicness of the Dominus, with better extension on the top and bottom. However, with the smaller gauge is most likely better for front end components than amps and such with larger current draw.

The kicker with all of this - is the fact what I am hearing is relevant to how the cord on my current equipment sounds. There is no telling if the results will be similar, let alone close with different equipment. Not to mention an entirely different system. So please keep in mind if you are just passing by this system thread and reading my ramblings, your mileage may vary! :)

I have also been told the Shunyata Anaconda Helix Alpha is a phenominal cord on the Esoteric X-01 Limited. I have no doubt this is the case. There is however, a limit on how many power cords I can have laying around to swap in and out before the wifey goes ballistic on me.

Thus, until the unit is fully broken in, I really won't be able to determine which power cord I prefer most on it. At this time, I am using the Purist Aqueous Anniversary on the Esoteric (at least for the past two days!) in which I hope to have a "listen to" tomorrow night after giving it a good 3-4 days to "settle in" to the system.

What I am learning with switching power cords around, I can no longer make a general statement like, "Power cord A crushes Power cord B in all areas." I AM guilty of that in the past. That statement may have been true on say my power conditioner, or my amps. I have learned that statement does NOT hold true on my speakers, or preamp, etc.

Thus my big "learning experience" is not the generalization of the power cord, but to find the power cord that best interacts with the component it placed upon and its interaction with the rest of the entire system.

I wish it would be as easy to say power cord A is the best and just buy those. Tried it, been there. With power cord A, power cord B, power cord C, etc. Does not seem to work in my system or experience.

Think that is enough rambling for now... but Guido, yes, I am still using the Epiphany X on the X-01 Limited... just not every day of the week. :)

audiofankj June 08, 2006 19:57

Hi Sherod, my apologies for the delay in response... I have not really looked at the system thread in a while.

Initially I really would have liked to have the AA around for comparison, especially as the X-01 Limited was new... although it would be unfair to compare a player that has not broken in.

At this time I would imagine the Esoteric X-01 Limited is anywhere from 80-90% broken in. I was told about 800 hours is the magic number, and I am just over 550 hours at this point.

As of now, the player is sounding quite fine! The speakers are pretty well dialed in as well... everything just keeps getting better everytime I sit down for a listen every couple of days.

I have been told the X-01 Limited really allows you to hear the differences with power cords, thus I am going to try and swap a few back and forth soon, after the player is close to being fully broken in. Should be interesting to see.

It is very nice to be able to celebrate Christmas year round!

audiofankj June 08, 2006 03:13

System edited: Some of the components listed were in need of update. All power cords have been upgraded from Epiphany to the Epiphany X a couple of months ago. Audio Aero Capitole Mk II SE cd player has been replaced with an Esoteric X-01 Limited. The Esoteric has just over 550 hours on it as of tonight, and I am told about 800 hours are needed for full break in. The player sounds MUCH better than it did a couple hundred hours ago. I am eager to hear if the improvements continue.

audiofankj June 08, 2006 03:05

System edited: Finally! The new digital front end has arrived. Why is it, an unknown departure from what is "known" in your system to a new component, once ordered, makes one feel like a child days before Christmas? Well. For various reasons, thoughts began to talk me into considering an upgrade for the Audio Aero Capitole Mk. II SE. Crazy. I know. However, when a fresh outbreak of 'audiophilia nervosa' breaks out, there is only so much a guy can do. So emails and phone calls ensued. "Research" was compiled. A decision was made. This was to be a "state of the art" yet one box cd player. The order was placed, and was to be shipped out soon. However it appeared the distributor didn't have one, and it would have to be 'shipped over.' Well... a week or a bit more went by. All was set. It is to be here on Friday. *cough* That is last Friday. Yep. The unit was held up in customs. I had out of state travel all week, thus the possibility of a Monday delivery, though possible, was out of the question. Prolonged "days before Christmas as a child syndrome" ensued. The word came that the player was on its way, then the confirmation from UPS that it is here. Last night the beast was hefted out of its tripled boxed transportation cocoon. The plastic wrapping and layers were carefully removed. The manual was read to be safe... quickly albeit. The player was perched atop the stand, as I didn't want to take the extra time to place it into one of the shelves. It was carefully placed atop to allow for easy access and quick hookup. Interconnects, power cord, double check connections... ok - it's time. I depress the power button to see the blue lights come to life on the Esoteric X-01 Limited. In goes a cd, on repeat... 24 hours down, at least 500 or so more to go according to some, 800 according to others. Either way it is on its merry way to settle into the system. I hope to update the system components, as well as photos relatively soon. Just thought I would log a 'blurb' on the thread at this time.

audiofankj May 06, 2006 02:45

Thanks Amperidian - yes, time with some slight system changes, coupled with a spring fever case of audiophilia nervosa results in a wandering eye toward new equipment. Hopefully the ears will approve as well! I am actually considering a slight divergence in front end, however seem to have quite a bit of well respected input as well. I am just hoping the interaction between components work out well.

I forgot you mentioned the isolation equipment in my thread back a few months. After the new player breaks in - I will have to make certain to experiment and "tweak" it a bit. As with my Capitole II, this new player should be a constant in my system for many years to come (*cough* I hope)... only time, and hopes of a non wandering audiophile eye will tell.

Thanks for the well wishes.

audiofankj April 25, 2006 04:30

Hi Sherod, Hope things are becoming more peaceful for you... my "understanding wife" ? *cough* Well, understanding is not the right word. Somewhat tolerant, yes, somewhat accepting, yes, somewhat able to look the other way, yes for a while. I am able to "get away with" some changes here and there. But I have to make certain it isn't overwhelming. Understanding? No. Nope. Nada. She doesn't "understand" as she really can't hear the difference between most things (or choses not to)... which makes it more of a "selfish" hobby rather than a shared hobby which is a shame.

I am not going to worry to much about the "little things" anymore. A good system is comprised of so many pieces of great gear, however at the same time, it is necessary there is a superb synergy and interaction between all the gear. If something isn't making the greatest contribution/interaction moving forward in the system, I think I will be less "married" to the item, and look elsewhere for the better "fit." Obviously this has it's pro's and con's. In areas such as time, cabling interaction, system matching, monetary expense, etc. However, I have had my system where I thought "I am not going to change a thing" in the past, and I do want to get back to that sound. Time will tell. Who knows. I am not going to worry about it though. It sounds great now. I want to get back to superb!

Hi Vince,

Which component have I kept for the longest? The First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II is currently the holder out of my current gear. However, the BPT line conditioner (although not as long) replaced a BPT 3.5 Signature, and a BPT 2.5 Signature prior to that. Thus they have been stable. As well as the Meadowlark line, from the Osprey, to the Nighthawk, to the Blue Heron 2's before selling them recently.

As for digital front ends. I have what quite a few consider to be one of the best analog sounding red book cd players out there. What I am looking into is considered to be one of the best one box state of the art red book cd players. As to how it up samples, down samples, over samples I have no idea. I am looking for what will give best sonic performance. Hope to have a decision and update on this item in the next couple of weeks.

audiofankj April 20, 2006 17:03

It seems I have neglected the posting on the system thread a bit. Perhaps I will need to back up a bit. After several hundred hours on the new Summits the midrange was still sounding lean/recessed to my ears. In my opinion, the H2o Signature monos, as well as my First Sound Preamp are both very neutral in their sonic signature. My Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's were slightly warm. With the Summits sounding a bit cool and recessed I quickly assumed they are not going to sound good with my equipment. Thus, something had to change, as I needed the midrange to have that natural, lifelike, textured, organic presentation.

Thus emails went out, calls were made, forums at the Martin Logan owners site were scoured. Quite a few Summit owners were having great luck with tube amps. After much deliberation, I determined to try a tube amp on the Summits to hear the sonic differences in comparison to my H2o Signature Monos...

Let me go on the record as stating the gentleman/dealer I purchased the PrimaLuna Prologue Seven monoblocks was very helpful in explaining the differences between them, the Manley Snappers, Cary V-12's, etc., etc. With the reviews, all the positive buzz, and the price point, it really seemed like a "no brainer" to audition the ProLogue Sevens.

Thus the PrimaLuna Prologue Seven monoblocks were ordered and of course, I was like a child a few days before Christmas. The anticipation was overwhelming. Finally, the amps arrived, triple boxed, white gloves, superb packaging. The amps look so much better in person than in photos. The fit and finish is absolutely top notch, much more so than many high end manufacturers at three times the cost of these monoblocks. I was already in love with the appearance, as they looked as good as anyone could wish for.

The amps were quickly unwrapped, delicately placed upon my stand, interconnects, speaker cable, and power cords connected. Powered up, waited a few minutes and flipped the preamp mute off. So far so good. The first few notes didn't sound bad. Not great, but brand new amps, as well as new tubes... the manual stated at least 100 hours for break in. So in went a cd on repeat. After a few days, the amp did open up, the soundstaging improved, the mids were warmer and clean, overall more extension in both extremes. A few more days passed and approx 110 hours on the amps. I was having trouble finding the "right" tap for my speakers. The Prologue Sevens have three taps to tailor for the matching to the speakers, 2, 4, and 8 ohm taps. The 2 ohm tap offered the greatest control, with tightly defined bass, and plenty of detail, however seemed to lack midrange body and finess. It was just a bit compressed sounding for lack of a better term. Now, the 4 ohm tap opened up the midrange nicely. The vocals were more organic, overall the presentation was more dynamic, however the bass was loose, and the highs were a bit rolled off. The 8 ohm tap was the worst match of all three options, with an overall presentation of a "reverb pedal" being depressed when vocals or guitars were played. Not to mention bass control was worse yet.

In went a call to the dealer that I was going to return them, and was very pleasantly offered several more days to continue to put more hours on the amps and let them break in further. Thus four more days went by with approx. another 60 hours of play time on the amps. I can not say there was further refinement at this point, and the swaps between 2 and 4 ohm taps continued. The 2 ohm provided the bass control necessary, yet seemed constricted and lacked overall dynamics and ease. The 4 ohm tap provided a very nice midrange, yet loose bass and rolled off highs, not to mention with much improved dynamics.

Frustrated that the speakers weren't interacting well with either tap, I placed a call to the dealer to confirm I would be shipping them back the next day. The dealer was phenominal in understanding, offering another amp or amp manufacturer to try, etc. As those of you with tube amps know, the different impedance taps affect the sonic presentation from the output transformers on the amps when they interact with the given speaker. Although the Martin Logan Summits do have a powered woofer, the electrostat panels still drop below a 1 ohm load. This was obviously not the best interaction with this amp, and is not a poor reflection on the amp. It was just not a match that was made in heaven. A bit resigned the amps didn't work out, they were packed back up and shipped back to the dealer. Although the kind offer was extended to try another amp or monoblocks at this time, I declined as I honestly feared a similar result. I did intend to purchase the amps, and don't want to wear out my welcome by "trying" amps that may not be a good fit. (these were shipped from across the country)

A few hours after the PrimaLuna amps were on their way back to the dealer, it felt odd to not have music playing out of the system, so I decided I will just have to listen to the "recessed midrange" until I can figure something out. The H2o Signature Monoblocks got hooked back up and in went a Dave Matthews (not audiophile grade recording) cd for background music... I hit play on the remote and walked out of the room, headed for the office (across the hall) to go read audiogon. My head turned as the lyrics sounded effortless and the cymbal hits had a shimmer and body that was noticable through the door. Up out of the chair I went and back into the listening room to have a closer listen. The sonic presentation that had been eluding me between the 2 & 4 ohm taps on the PrimaLuna was there. Not only there, but there in spades! Out came Dave Matthews and in went Patricia Barber, then Leneord Cohen, then Diana Krall, then Holly Cole, etc., etc. Every cd in rotation for "evaluation" of the PrimaLuna's sounded superb. The bass was well controlled, tight, defined and well delineated. The midrange wasn't as warm as the tube amps, however it was not recessed, nor uninvolving at this time. The organic and liquid nature that I had with the Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's was back. The highs were the most startling of all. The cymbals and bells were astounding. The Summits sounded lifeless on the top end with the PrimaLuna amps in comparison.

Thus, the only thing at this time I could assume is the Summit's weren't fully broken in. As they had a good 5-600 hours on them prior to the arrival of the PrimaLuna's, and the manuals state 100 or 150 hours, which was well exceeded, had me assuming they were fully broken in. I called Martin Logan tech support and they stated this is a relatively new speaker and they don't necessarily have all that much feedback on the break in yet, and they just had a guy call a few weeks ago saying they opened up wonderfully after 1,000 hours. I honestly have no idea how many hours were on mine at that time, however there were definate sonic changes over the two weeks the PrimaLuna amps were in the system.

The speakers may still need to be slightly tweaked placement wise and such, but overall the sound is very good. They are a different presentation/sonic signature than dynamic speakers (obviously) and I do think there is a slight lack of midbass or upper midbass dynamics, however that could also be with placement tweaking and room interaction.

Thus, even though the PrimaLuna's were in some of the photos, they are not in the system. I would not steer anyone away from trying them. It really becomes important to have that amp/speaker relationship or interaction work with tube amps however. It just wasn't there with this combination. Keep in mind, the PrimaLuna's are 70 wpc, where the H2o's on the Summits are at least 500 wpc. Thus there are multiple variables at play.

So at this point, music is playing. Life is good. Presentation is still a little different from my Blue Heron 2's. Some aspects I like better, some I miss. Time will tell if I can get the Summits to work just right in my room or not. At this time I am considering upgrading the digital front end. Yep, I hear that... why confuse the situation more, you say? Why not? :) Unfortunately for me the trial of a new peice of gear may have me back on the merry-go-round for a spin or two. Will have to see how soon I can jump off. Hopefully soon!

audiofankj April 15, 2006 05:45

System edited: Just a system name change - nothting much exciting... :) New Summits are really starting to open up with about 800 or so hours on them at this point. Turntable should be making its way into the room soon, hopefully this weekend.

audiofankj April 01, 2006 04:13

System edited: Added photo of the room as it stands currently. The vinyl rig is still in the other room, as it hasn't found its way back into the listening room after remodelling as I am tweaking speaker placement, and now gear. During break in of the Summits, I concluded the midrange/vocals to be a bit on the cool side. I would personally prefer them to be a tad warmer, as the amps and preamp are quite neutral, I would imagine the change comes after selling the Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's (slightly warm) and adding the Summits (more neutral). Thus, much is going on. I am auditioning/breaking in a pair of the Prima Luna Prologue Seven monoblocks. They have close to 100 hours on them at this time, so it will be in the next few days that I will have to come up with a verdict on which amp stays or goes. Vince, yes and no. I think much of the bass issues have been corrected with the renovated wall. However, there is also much more emphasis in the midbass now (as expected) thus I am still tweaking speaker placement, as well as possible gear changes. Will try to update the thread as soon as some issues are sorted through...

audiofankj March 29, 2006 04:47

Hey Vince,

That may be quite possible! I have honestly never heard of that before. I have heard vinyl sounds better with humidity... but when I have owned the ML's it was in Ohio, which wasn't much humidity (especially winter months) as well as here in Georgia, which will get humid outside, which would be mooted with the air conditioning as it is also 90 degrees out... :) Thanks for the tip. Always worth knowing a bit more about the possibilities though. One thing is for certain in my mind... as good as these Summits may end up after break in, I am quite sure they will not be on par with the Scintillas I heard at Henry's. Unbelievable. No qualms about it. You own a keeper of a speaker there.

audiofankj March 11, 2006 15:00

Vince - if you haven't heard the Electraglide Epiphany's you are probably better off not knowing. They are consistantly argued to be in the top few cables along with the Kubala-Sosna, the Purist Dominus, and the Elrods after the first three is usually how they fall out. They of course are system dependent to a degree, however they are all great performers that most will agree to. The ML's getting fat with humidity? Perhaps. I would have to say, don't beleive everything you hear on that one tho. :)

Islandear - I am quite humbled to have you place my minor remodelling "fix" in the same sentence with the stellar, entirely built and tweaked rooms by Albert and Mike. However, thanks for the compliment. I am just happy at this point it seems to have more than corrected the issue. I am logging hours on the ML's now... and they have really seemed to open up quite a bit this week while I was gone. Will continue to burn in for another week or two and get several hundred hours on them, then tweak the rake of the stat panel, toe-in, placement, bass controls, etc., etc. To answer your question, I am definately not qualified to be a contractor, nor do I have the patience. Audiophile, perhaps - music enthusiast would probably be the closest... when the system is sounding "right" it really doesn't matter what is spinning. It just sounds good. Happy listening.

audiofankj March 11, 2006 04:26

System edited: Updated speakers... as the Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's have been sold as stated a bit ago in the thread, and the Martin Logan Summits have been added to the virtual system. I will try to get around to taking and placing some updated photos on the system thread soon... other than the remodelling pics.

audiofankj March 11, 2006 04:17

Vince,

Yep. That about sums it up. At this time I think there is a bit under 100 hours on the Martin Logan Summits. There is definately more bass in the room. I have just set up the speakers according to my room dimensions and the Cardas speaker setup for dipolar speakers. I figured I would let them get a good couple of hundred hours on them first prior to tweaking placement and bass adjustments. The Summits have +/- 10 db adjustments at 25 Hz and at 50 Hz, in which they state it will in general affect a 10 Hz sweep at those areas. So, all in all the wall reinforcement with the adjustments on the bass should overcome the room anomalies. (keeping fingers crossed)

I am also trying the Electraglide Epiphany X on the speakers and will most likely try them on other components as well to get an idea how they compare to the Epiphany's.

audiofankj March 05, 2006 03:37

System edited: Pictures added of the room renovation described in above response to system thread...

audiofankj March 03, 2006 05:54

(WARNING - LONG READ)

Wow, sorry for the much prolonged delay on the system thread responses and update.

I will admit to putting this off more than once or twice, as this update will most likely consume a couple of hours of typing!

Ken - You are more than welcome to come over anytime! Will have the espresso ready and the tubes glowing! As you know, we will hopefully get together in a week or so and see what your impressions are post construction & with the new babies.

Gstringer - Well, the short story is the long story that I will post below. I too was dissapointed to see them go. I will explain below in detail.

Art - Thanks for the compliments on the room. It still looks good, but has had some "touch up" work performed to it! I have just recently installed two Epiphany X power cords that are breaking in on the new "babies"... more info below.

The good, the bad, the ugly:

The good: new house, new dedicated listening room.
The bad: new house, new dedicated listening room.
The ugly: new house, new dedicated listening room.

What am I talking about? Ok... where to begin. Shortly after a couple of months in the new home (as much time was not available to spend listening as I was marking items off the "honey do" list) I became aware of what I called "missing notes." Particularly this was noticable on track nine of Patricia Barber's Modern Cool album. When the stand up bass plucked the lowest two notes, they were almost inaudible. This caused great consternation. This became the "focus"... why are these notes sounding quiet?

The next few days turned into weeks with the Rives Audio test cd, and not one, not two, yes THREE different SPL meters from Rat Shack to ensure I was getting the proper readings. Did I mention speakers were moved from what was the "sweet spot" from 2 feet from the back wall to almost 8 feet into the room? Also moved from 18 inches from the side wall to almost 5 feet out from the side wall. All positions, some better, some worse came up with the same evidence.

The frequency range from 30-42 Hz was down 18-22 dB !!! 20 Hz was down 4 dB, 25 Hz was down 3 dB... 53 Hz was up 5 dB. Did we miss that last part? 18-22 dB DOWN at 30-42 Hz!

Ok, now came the investigation as to WHAT was casing this. To back track just a bit, when we had the home built, I requested certain specifications, as the rooms I-joists to be on 16" centers rather than 19". The builder one upped my request and put the I-joists on 12" centers. This has been the case with most respects throughout the building process. So... when it came time to drywall the room and such, I asked for double drywall and a very reinforced wall, he suggested he let his "sound guys" do the room. He explained they treat "music rooms" (pianos & such) and home theaters all the time. This is where the drywall furring strips and such came into the picture. There was also a double stagger stud wall on the wall behind the speakers, in which the master bedroom headboard is on the other side.

Oh almost forgot! A few weeks was also spent with a PAIR of Onix Rocket UFW-12 subwoofers... These were corner loaded 9" out from each wall as they had a parametric EQ to help "augment" the missing bass area. I was able to get that area of frequency up substantially, almost even. However, listening was confirmed with friends as well, they just did not integrate well with the Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's.

So, it was concluded it was the double stagger stud wall behind the speakers (that was blown with insulation, tight, between all three "walls/studs") that was acting as an enormous bass absobsion trap... tuned to those frequencies.

Wondered what I meant by the good, the bad, and the ugly above? New house, new dedicated listening room. Did I mention that? I could not write enough about how adamant my better half was against me doing anything to "modify" the rear wall. Weeks of badgering went by. "Nothing is going to change with the room!" continued to be the response. The lack of lower stand up bass notes became more and more annoying once it becomes a focus.

It was more of a reality than a threat to the wife. I was determined I was going to sell the entire system if I couldn't get it to sound as it should. I conceded it won't necessarily be perfect, however it shouldn't have a glaring problem either. We had already chosen the new Sony 60" Grand WEGA SXRD rear projection that looks stunning. I had a friend lined up to help me go load it into the truck the next day. I couldn't sleep that night.

Next morning I called my buddy and told him I am not getting the TV. All I could think about is how it took SO many years, trials, and such to get it to this point. I have to make it work.

Did I mention the good, the bad, and the ugly? Heh. Ok - so there are NO options to fix/modify/whatever to the room. It is not the adding of bass traps, it needs more bass. Thus it came down to a decision to sell my speakers and buy a speaker on the market that has some type of bass adjustment. Which will hopefully better integrate within the listening room. That was somewhat agreeable to the wife. Reluctantly, very, very reluctantly the Meadowlark BH2's went up for sale.

An order was placed for my new set of speakers: Martin Logan Summits. Days went by as buyers/sellers remorse intensified. Calls and emails were made to fellow audiophiles on both the room and the new speakers. A fellow audiogon member, Albert Porter - whom is always a wealth of honest knowledge and opinion, made the obvious extremely clear to me. I have to fix the source of the problem. The new speakers or any new speaker may or may not sound better, however the problem still exists, and will continue to pose problems. Thank you Albert, for turning on the light in my head. SO - coupled with the "buyers/sellers" remorse, I was now trying to stomach the thought of what in my mind I termed as "trying to place a bandaid on a broken bone..."

Calls were made to many people regarding the "fix/solution." Again, Albert was a wealth of knowledge and the "fix/solution" was almost followed per his recommendation without deviation. The plan was to tear down the drywall and the metal resilient channel (furring strips) and to strengthen the wall behind the speakers and corners to reinforce the bass.

A call was placed to our old neighbor, a retired builder whom still does remodeling as a "hobby." He agreed to come over, take a look at what it would entail, and give a quote. He was busy the next few days, however mentioned he could start the work next week.

Festering lightbulb in my head "must fix the broken bone..." and conversations with the wife that, "Dave could come over and start it next week, without much mess, and it won't take long..." Well, to be honest, I must admit I did not get an "ok" or the go ahead. A few days later I mentioned Dave was coming the next week to start, and was reminded not to make a mess of the house, and she didn't agree to it.

Yes, so at this point I am in the dog house. My head is spinning. My beloved speakers are sold. New ones are purchased and on the way - in which case I don't know if they will sound equal let alone better than my old Meadowlarks. Did I mention I am in the dog house? Also the wall is about to get torn down in which I really didn't get "authorization" for from the better half, in which we all realize we will pay dearly for later.

(I will be adding pictures of the process to the system thread) Dave arrives and we take a couple of hours prepping- laying down the blankets, etc. as I had already removed all the audio gear out of the room, and placed it securely in another area of the house. Everything was removed from the built in shelving, and it was tarped over and taped down. Furniture that stayed in the room was moved as far out of the way and also tarped over. The return air vent was also taped over to ensure "the bit" of dust made would not get blown to other rooms in the house.

OK - The beauty of the metal furring strips is they were laid horizontally across the wall spaced every 12 inches apart. Thus we cut the drywall with the jigsaw horizontally in sections above and below the metal furring strips. Did I mention dust? *cough* With steady work from morning to about 5 p.m. about half of the main wall had the drywall and the furring strips removed. There was much to our dismay. The blown insulation was packed so tight between the two stagger stud walls, it was most likely ineffective. The two by fours used for the wall that the metal furring strips were hung on were not "stud grade" according to Dave. You could literally place your hand on the middle of a stud and push on it, back and forth - and I am NOT exaggerating - it would flex back and forth 5 to 6 INCHES left to right. So much for that sturdy wall, eh? Did I mention there was much to our dismay? Along with the insulation being packed overly tight, and the studs being very, very flimsy, there were areas on both sides of the wall in which the two by fours were almost spaced 24 inches apart. YES, two feet! Those few did have cross members, but most did not. Also, the resilient channels, or metal furring strips were not all attached by screw as some were nailed and some were cut... All in all, there was much that could be probable cause to the "bass trap."

With the drywall being removed, we had to remove a good bit of the blown insulation. This resulted in the filling of dozens of lawn/yard sized trash bags...

OK back to the story, Dave departed about 5 p.m. or so with about half of the main wall removed. I continued to cut and remove the drywall to just above the baseboard and remove all of the insulation on the main wall. I was also able to do the corner of the room in which was about the first 6 feet of the side wall.

The next morning, the base board, and trim around the door on the side wall was removed. Then out came the "Saws-All" (not sure how it is spelled) and the two by fours began coming down and out. As a few came down, in went the new and improved studs.

We took two 2x4s and used "Liquid Nails" (subfloor version) and double beaded a 2x4. We then placed another 2x4 against the one with the Liquid Nails and then drove 3" drywall screws through the 2x4s to ensure they are securely joined. The above process comprised our "stud." These new and improved "studs" were spaced on roughly 9" centers, with slight deviation to allow for hanging of the sheets to follow... We then used Liquid Nails and drywall screws to reinforce the cross members, which were randomly spaced to break up resonances. Some had two cross members, some had three.

After this was done, we placed insulation in the studs. This really has no sonic merit for the listening room, however with the master bedroom on the other side, with the headboard to the bed against the shared wall, we figured we could use all of the sound deadening we could get... especially if this did help improve bass reinforcement.

Next came the plywood. Yes... 3/4" tongue & groove plywood. The plywood was also adhered to the studs with Liquid Nails and 3" drywall screws. After all of the plywood was glued and screwed, the liberal application of accoustical caulk to seal any spaces before the drywall layer went on.

Next came the 5/8" thick drywall... layer one. Audio Alloy's "Green Glue" (www.audioalloy.com) which is described as "Green Glue is a liquid, waterborne, viscoelastic damping compound..." this was spread on the first layer of drywall, so it would be "sandwiched" between the first layer of drywall and the plywood. After the drywall was "gooped", we placed it on the plywood and liberally screwed drywall screws into the drywall from the center out, as the instructions recommend.

After the first layer of drywall was glued & screwed, we mudded the joints and allowed them to dry. Slight sanding was performed to ensure there were no high spots.

The second layer of 5/8" drywall was then Green Glued & screwed onto the first layer of drywall. Thus creating a second "sandwich" of the Green Glue.

Mudding and sanding. Mudding and sanding. This commenced for several days.

Finally it was at a point where we felt it was about as good as it could get visually. The baseboards were replaced as well as the trim on the door.

I then painted the drywall with a color matched (close at least) primer. After the primer dried we then mudded a few spots that were noticable and sanded another day or so.

The walls were then painted twice. Putty was filled into the nail holes to reattach the base boards and trim around the door. That was also touch up painted. Wall plates were reinstalled and outlets tested.

All in all, the project took more than expected. Time frame was over three weeks and just under a month I think. Budget estimate went from a few hundred to a final cost of close to fifteen hundred. The result? Well as far as I can tell - priceless. At least for sonics. I have some work to do around the house, and owe my wife a lot for tolerating this in a new house. There was drywall dust everywhere as well.

However, with new speakers that are just beginning to break in... there is much, much more bass than there was before. That is with warnings the speakers will sound bass shy for quite some time when new.

Thus, I just may be looking for some bass absorbsion devices in a few weeks. But for now, it seems that when the new speakers break in, and placement is tweaked, and the SPL meter comes out... there won't be a 18-22 dB anomally in the 30-42 Hz range.

Now I just hope these speakers perform at least equally to the Meadowlark BH2's. I think that is asking a lot.

Thus - this is why the responses have been put off for a bit. I am certain there is some I have left out, however ask away and I can clarify.

audiofankj March 03, 2006 04:46

Larry,

I received the Purist cables about two weeks ago. They have been "breaking in" since then, albeit while I have been contantly shifting the speakers around and such. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to you and your loved ones!

Howard,

I too am finding them to be very well balanced, as well as competent in all areas. I honestly haven't had any real "critical" listening yet, as I just keep logging a few hours on the cabling here and there.

audiofankj December 20, 2005 04:07

Thanks Howard! I would like to be hopeful this will be a nice Christmas gift for many, many years to come :) Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones!

audiofankj December 19, 2005 05:12

System edited: Cabling change. New room and new cable length requirements prompted sale of previous cables, Synergistic Research Resolution Reference X2. The initial plan was to purchase new SR Res. Ref. X2 in the correct lenghts for the new room. However, after I placed calls to a few people that sell many lines of cable, ie. Cardas, Shunyata, Silversmith, Purist, Nordost, Synergistic Research, AudioQuest, Acoustic Zen, Kimber, MIT, Siltech, etc. to name a few I inquired as to what if anything would be worth considering in the same price range if anything. The new Purist Audio Design was emphatically recommended by a gentleman whom replaced his entire system which was running the Synergistic Research Designers Reference X2 (which was one level above my Res. Ref. X2) with the new Purist Aqueous 20th Anniversary. Thus my initial intent of new SR Res. Ref. X2, ended up with the purchase of the new Purist Audio Design Aqueous 20th Anniversary. There were more inquiries than just one or two, and the response from those whom have heard the new Aqueous made me go in that direction. As of now, I have been toying mainly with speaker setup in the new room and tweaking of speaker placement as the cables have been breaking in. They now have about 300 hours on them, and are sounding very promising. I really don't want to "judge" them until they have a good 500 hours or so on them and they aren't being moved every 20 minutes with new speaker position. I will try to post updates as I get time to listen and post noticable changes... Ridge Street Audio Cable Risers for speaker cables have been removed from the system and are no longer in use.

audiofankj December 19, 2005 04:55

Hey Ray - :) Thanks - I still have my kidneys! I am still tweaking the speaker placement, but think I really have it down. What has become more apparent is the "sound isolation" we built into the room, seems to be "absorbing" the bass frequencies between 30-40 Hz or so. I am only down a few db at 20 Hz, and few db at 25 Hz, about the same as 53 Hz up... At this time I will be repositioning the speakers in various locations to confirm it is the "blown insulation" in the walls with the drywall furring strips that seems to be causing the lack of bass at those frequencies.

Hello Amperidian - thank you for your kind words. I just now realized I haven't answered your post earlier. I will have to reread your post and respond for you. You are right with your comments about patience. It has been well over 350 hours now of play time into this new room, and an absolute minimum of 9 hours of moving speakers from 1/2 an inch here and there, to 5 feet back and moving back into the room, inches at a time. Same with the side walls. However, at this time, I am quite confident I have foudn the optimal placement for the speakers, however at the same time am becoming almost as confident that the sound insulation the builder worked into the room is also absorbing certain frequencies. I am still going to give it more time, and perhaps send off some measurements to Rives. I may also look into a subwoofer with a parametric EQ to augment the bass in the frequencies the room seems to be absorbing. For the current time, you are right - give it more time, and drink more wine!

audiofankj December 19, 2005 04:10

Wow - many responses! Thanks. I have been busy trying to get the rest of the house finally in order, to allow for some time to finalize tweaking in the listening room.

Yes, the "look" of the room came out quite pleasing. I will have to post more pictures soon. I have continued trying to determine optimal speaker placement and they continue to move out into the room. The midrange drivers are currently 6 feet 7 inches out from the rear wall, and 4 feet, 2 inches from the side walls. This location seems to give the best bottom end as well as linear response while at higher listening levels, not to mention a great soundstage. This placement also seems to lack the rear wall bass reinforcement at lower volume levels. This placement also seems to have a boost to the upper bass frequencies. This placement also requires longer cabling. LoL... can we go back to "the "look" of the room came out quite pleasing"?
*grins*

So... where does that put us? At this time I am seriously pondering the Rives Audio Consulting route. With the new home and all the "luxuries" that come with it, the audio fund bank has been left with not much other than lint. So, at this time before throwing money at changes that may or may not affect the sonic anomalies, I think I am going to defer to the experts.

Will have to draw up the room and descriptions and submit to Rives, then it should be a few weeks to a month or two before plans are back as to what needs to be addressed, or *gasp* if the room is "unfixable" ... Of course there is the option of the PARC or room correction devices but at this time with little or no funds, this is the last thought I wanted to be faced with after building the new home is to hear the room may be horrendous. Heh. Time will tell. All in all, I hope most of it could be corrected without having to sell a kidney.

I will try to check and update this thread more often.

Sincere thanks again for all the kind words. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely blessed to have this room and incredibly appreciate it. I was just blind and thought I will set up the system and all will sound perfect...

audiofankj November 30, 2005 00:34

System edited: A couple of "in the process" pictures added. The media wall will eventually have all my albums in it, however I am trying to tweak speaker placement and have some pillows and such thrown all over it at this time. Turntable is also not set up yet as I am behind the rack moving cabling every hour or so it seems. Will be posting a thread requesting any general help/ideas on placement with regards to the room. Have been tweaking all day with some benefit, but far from where it needs to be.

audiofankj November 20, 2005 04:12

It's Alive. I have finally finished up most of the "need to do before the stereo room" list the wife had for me as we moved into the new home, and started assembling the room a couple of days ago. Started with swapping out the builder duplexes with Porter Ports, hanging some paintings on the walls, putting up the drapes, assembled the new component rack, and just a few hours ago carried all the equipment upstairs and hooked it up. It seems everything has survived the move. However, at this time the system sounds to be shy in the bass department. LoL- I probably shouldn't be critical at this point. There are a few factors in which may affect the sonics a bit; all 5 new dedicated 20A lines are run with cryo'd 10-2 romex which is brand new. All Porter Ports are also brand new. All gear and cabling has been boxed and unused for almost 7 months. There are no spikes on the speakers at this time as I will want to tweak placement. Speaker placement may be way off. Those are a few running through my mind. The room is 15' 10" wide by 21' 10" long. The midrange driver on the front baffle is currently 47" out from the rear wall, and 36" from the side wall. The speakers are toed in at this time. The speakers are about 9' 4" apart midrange to midrange. The distance from one speaker to the listening seat is about 10' 5" or so.

I will most likely turn it on in the morning and start playing something on repeat and move the speakers around a bit tomorrow evening to see what I can come up with.

If anyone has a similar sized room and cares to recommend a good starting point for speaker placement let me know.

OH the monoblocks are now in the equipment rack, and the speaker cables are 6 ft., thus the speakers really can't go out much further into the room unless they move in more from the side wall as well...

Photos and replies to Amperidian's post to follow shortly, exhausted and going to crash for the night...

audiofankj November 19, 2005 05:56

System edited: Photo update: Rear wall cabinet/shelving unit installed... Each built-in wall unit on either side of the drywall center (chimney exhaust from fireplace below in great room) is just under 6 1/2 feet wide and 9 feet tall. There are a total of four cabinets in which the front door of the cabinet could be modified with a mesh material and stuffed with bass absorbing / accoustic material if need be... hopefully not the case. There are a total of 8 drawers built in for CD storage. Storage for the vinyl albums are above. There are 24 sections for vinyl storage with approximate dimensions of 26" wide, by 14" high, by 15" deep. I am also hoping the album sections will help with diffusion... Ken - You are more than welcome to come over whenever... I am extremely eager to get the rig back together and up... perhaps if all goes well another 60 days or so... thanks again for the session at your pad. Sounding great as always! Once all is complete I will be certain to have you over for a listen, as I will most likely appreciate you helping me determine what changes, if any occur over time as well. Talk with you soon & take care.

audiofankj September 06, 2005 02:05

Bummer of an update... closing date on the new home pushed back at this point to early November...

audiofankj August 24, 2005 01:29

Ivan - there is much to be found online about soundproofing. I suggest doing a "google" search on the topic and you will find well over a dozen or so sites. One that I found with much usefull information was:

Soundproofing Link

The link was saved on the page with the metal drywall furring strips, however there is a ton of information on the site. As stated above, there are many others with good information as well. Good luck.

Vince - yeah, I noticed your post before it was removed. I really most likely won't frequent a users forum. Once I have the piece of gear and it is working well I usually stop obsessing over it on the sites... However, in my mind Henry really has to get his site fixed and/or cleaned up. I am sure it is more frustrating than helpful to those interested in it when they look at it. Hope you are doing well out west!

Art - you make me laugh, as you put it, I am "insanely jealous" of the joy and happiness you must have with your family and a 3 and 5 year old sons! I so look forward to the time when we begin and have a family, however in reality that isn't right around the corner at this time... You are absolutely correct, that family takes a much higher place on the totem pole of life. In the listening room, I have one lonely cable jack in between the 5 independent dedicated 20A lines... as I know if or when the wife and I turn into parents that room will have its days numbered. The system will most likely move down into a room in the basement we would finish off, and the "stereo room" (bonus room) would be most likely used for an informal family room / childrens play area after they are a few years old. No worries Art, hopefully in a few years I will be right where you are - happy with my priorities straight!

Another 36 to 48 hours and we should get a close date from the builder... I am hoping we are still on track for an early October, however in my gut I am thinking it will be more like early November. Will know soon.

audiofankj August 21, 2005 06:01

System edited: General Maintenance to the thread... Long overdue- posted my analog rig... although it rests in storage along with all my other equipment awaiting the completion of the new home... removed the FIM 880 receptacle as that stayed in the wall in the old home (oops)... New house will have all Porter Ports for the five dedicated lines... other than that, most should be correct now.

audiofankj August 13, 2005 03:07

System edited: Two new photos added from the work over the past few days... First photo is a close up of the metal drywall furring strip against the stud taken in the doorway. In addition to the two additional walls on either side of the original wall between the listening room and master bedroom, all interior walls were blown with insulation as well. The contractor had spoken with his drywall crew and said they had used the metal furring strips for music/home theater/sound rooms before and were familiar with the installation. So, when the builder offered to install the furring strips on the interior walls I was happy to accept. The metal furring strips are screwed into the studs, and then the drywall is screwed into the metal furring strips. Thus this should help to diminish the vibration of the drywall with loud music directly into the stud in which most of the sound is passed... *fingers crossed* - hope this helps... The second photo is showing as much of the room and the front wall the system will be set up on as I can manage. I don't have a wide angle digital camera... The 2x4 framing for the beams of the coffered ceiling are visible, as well as the 5 dedicated 20 amp lines... the sixth box in that row is a cable jack that isn't going to be used, however if we turn the room into a childrens play area / home theater room down the road it would be nice to have the cable already wired... Other than that I am just fanning the flames of the fire we have under the builders seat... :)

audiofankj August 13, 2005 02:12

Thanks Vince. I hope so. I am beyond eager at this point!

Howard- for the first time I think you have made me feel satisfied everything is all packed away safe and sound for the move. :) LoL - If I think it needs a spring break, you will be first on the list, sound like a deal?

audiofankj August 13, 2005 01:57

System edited: Added a photo today taken the other day showing the listening room from the hallway showing the stairs and platform leading up to the listening room. Two walls are on the exterior of the house, two walls are interior walls. One interior wall is shared with the hallway (in which the stairs lead up to the doorway) which is insulated. The other interior wall is a shared wall with the master bedroom. This wall had two additional walls added, one wall one inch into each room, out from the original room wall. All three walls were insulated. The next step will be the placement of drywall metal furring strips to help with sound isolation in which the drywall will then be hung upon. Hopefully the drywall will begin this week. If the drywall doesn't begin this week, it appears that the projected close date will have to be moved back a couple of weeks. As we have been told we are to close the end of September and/or early October, yet we were also told once the drywall is completed we will be about 60 days out to close. So perhaps mid to late October is more realistic at this time...

audiofankj August 09, 2005 01:51

Thanks Islandear - But please, don't offend Albert or Mike, in no way is my room to be considered in the same context. I didn't have the luxury to even have it "mapped out" or dimensions specified as to what would be best for a stereo room. In my case when the wife and I were scouting floor plans for our new house, she agreed to let me have the bonus room for a stereo room. Of course, I like some floor plans better than others, as some were almost square, others were too narrow, however I was limited by what plans she liked as well. However, I wasn't to look a gift horse in the mouth, as this room will be much larger than the old 12 ft. x 12 ft. spare bedroom I was using until the basement was going to get finished off.

Thus the room size - 15' 11.5" W x 21' 10.5" L x 9' heigh was pretty set in stone from the floorplan. I was happy with it as it was much larger, and dedicated thus I would be able to at least make some improvements over my other room. Such as not only a 9 foot ceiling, but also to have the ceiling coffered. I am hoping this will help with diffusion of waves. I am also going with the built in bookshelves on the rear wall to house the vinyl, and also help with diffusion. I am running the 5 dedicated 20 A lines with 10 gauge solid core copper that has been cryo treated... and selectively placed on the breaker panel. As for the walls, two are exterior, one interior is adjacent to a hallway, with unoccupied rooms accross from the hallway. The other wall (the one with all the 20A receptacles on it) is adjacent to the master bedroom. :o I know. Thus I DID want to stagger stud that wall. It is difficult to see in the photo, however the builder framed the room as it would be normally - no audiophile mess... then we moved out 1" from the bottom of the 2x4 and ran another wall, thus totally removed from the initial wall, rather than stagger studding. The opposite side is also difficult to see, as the listening room sits about 2 feet higher than the other rooms on the second level (over the great room which has a ceiling 2 ft. higher than rest of main floor). The master bedroom wall was treated the same way, with another independent wall studded in. The headboard of the bed will be along that wall too... thus my involvement with the most soundproofing possible within reasonable costs to this point. The builder and I discussed we will insulate all walls, most likely serpentining the insulation between the studs in the wall seperating the master bedroom and the listening room. There will also be a solid door on the room, in which I will most likely add some type of weather stripping to help with the sound.

The builder was also looking into "soundproofing" items and was trying to describe what he called "metal strips" that will be nailed to the studs and then the drywall goes on top of that, thus it sounded to be more isolation from the drywall passing vibration through to the studs. Hopefully it will work, rather than vibrate (my largest fear at this time)... just more along the lines of concern with what I am not familiar with... I don't want any little item to rattle or buzz behind a wall after all is trimmed, painted, moved in, said and done!

I will be using Albert's PorterPorts in the 20A receptacles however, so you can lump me in there... :)

1,994 hours until close! That is if we do end up closing on October 3rd (first Monday of the month), as the house is to be done the end of September. We shall see... I am suprised I hadn't figured that out yet!

Now the question is, how many hours before I have music playing after the closing? Hopefully will be done in the first week. *fingers crossed*

audiofankj July 13, 2005 03:02

System edited: The latest update on the house progress... perhaps I will ramble a bit... At this point the listening room is starting to come together. Just starting, not much more, but that is alright... progress is welcome here. :) As some of you are aware, I have had various threads on the build of the room, the wiring, the soundproofing, etc. Well, with the dedicated listening room being located on the second floor, it was a concern as to how wide the "I" joists will be spaced for the floor. Code for a 10" "I" beam is 19.2" on center. Many recommended to have 16" on center (thank you), that it will give a much better support of the floor and less bounce, especially considering the turntable and such. Well, in this case the builder actually pleasantly suprized me, as the floor "I" joists were laid on 12" centers, so I assume this should be a fairly solid support. Flooring was the 3/4" 4ft. x 8 ft. boards, which were glued and screwed. Today the wiring began, and as you can see with the latest photo, it has begun! The photo shows the gang of 5 dedicated 20A seperate circuits. Wiring was purchased from Robert at Ridge Street Audio, which is 10-2 Romex, solid core copper that has been cryo treated. The 5 dedicated 20A lines are all to be on the same leg, at the top of their side on the breaker box. All appliances with motors, ie. refrigerator, AC, furnace, microwave, etc. are to be placed on opposite leg. Hopefully this will happen, as the electricians only have most of the second floor roughed in and the wire hanging below... That is about it at this point for the update. We did meet with the cabinet people, who will be making custom cabinets to house the vinyl on either side of the fireplace chimney housing along the back wall of the room. The cabinets should be about 3 ft. tall, and then have 5 feet wide by 5 feet tall shelving to hold the albums on both sides of the rear wall. I am hoping this will also help a bit with the diffusion. Vicariously living through other system threads...

audiofankj July 12, 2005 02:35

Hey Vince- they are progressing... I can't say if it is at a good pace or not. Things seem to be getting done... the house is framed, the roof is on, and the house is wrapped... the brick and stone work began today. All that sounds and IS good, however the plumbing has just begun inside, HVAC and wiring still yet to begin. Hopefully there will be much activity next week. Happy 4th or July to all!

audiofankj July 03, 2005 06:05

System edited: Just added a photo snapped this morning from across the street... it is moving along- just not as fast as I wish it would be. Thus far, the lot has been cleared, the basement excavated, the footers poured, the basement walls poured, basement plumbing installed, introductory grading has been done. We are currently awaiting the inspection of the plumbing in the basement (I believe) before they can pour the slab. The builder is stating framing should begin shortly thereafter.

audiofankj May 22, 2005 04:13

Hello Art -

Would you believe me if I told you I am in love with my iPod and am leaning toward selling my complete system? Well don't. As much as I love/loved the iPod - even with the Grado 325 headphones, there is just no comparison. I may not respond as quickly on here as I am trying not to dwell on everything boxed up... :) Also, the wife and I don't care to spend much time in the apartment, thus we are off looking at the lot to check up on the progress of construction and stuff. I am hanging in there and am looking forward to the new room when we are finally there!

Hello Ken -

Great to hear from you! Yeah, I will most likely have to stop by soon. As I mentioned above to Art, I am trying to put the system and such in the back of my mind for now. I am not certain if listening to your system would be therapeutic or not! I may miss it even more! However, I was planning on giving you a call this week as I think the Atlanta record show is this Sunday... may have to go in search of new vinyl. Speaking of vinyl, perhaps we will have to get together... maybe see how my table and phono stage sound in your system? :) LoL - just going to come here and await its new home for another 5 months or so at this point... would definately be more than happy to consult with the CCa tubes as well - although you know your ears are damn good! Talk with you soon.

audiofankj May 18, 2005 01:26

Lew4-

Yes, I spoke with Pat McGinty and described my personal dislike for "light" woods... in my mind I really don't care how rare a certain light ash finish is... I don't want a speaker that looks similar to plywood, etc.

There was a pair of Blue Heron 2's on his website picture of the month or week section that had stated it was "slightly darkened"... so I asked Pat about it, and he said he felt it gave it a "warmer" feel/look to it. As most of the other woods in the room are Mahogany or a darker stain I opted to go that direction. I personally love how they turned out. Pat is more of a "purist" with his woods, he would prefer to just laquer them to allow the natural beauty show through. I can appreciate it, however curly maple won't fly with the decor or my better half... :)

audiofankj April 21, 2005 17:05

Art - Just keep me posted when you are headed in this direction... I look forward to enjoying some tunes together.

Nick - Thanks. I have tried plenty of equipment (not nearly as much as some, and quite a bit more than most I would think) and have come to realize, in my mind much more emphasis needs to be placed on system matching than some do. Many pieces of audio geat *can* sound *phenominal* paired with the correct supporting cast of gear. That same piece paired with similar gear that say all have a tendency to spotlight a given weakness will sound poor. This site is a great site with some very knowledgable people that are kind giving advice of their experiences. Listen closely and keep in mind what they had it paired with to help give you an idea if you are looking for a new item... then if at all possible, try to audition it, in your own system is always best, but not always feasible.

Howard - No worries :) Just making sure I didn't sound like an ass. Yeah, I am eagerly awaiting the new house and room... not the mortgage payment tho. :/ Hope rates stabilize a bit.

Vince - You trying to get my system thread to 1,000 responses? :) Yeah, I read that about the Meadowlark situation. I had a gut feeling about it, as I vented a day or two before that newspaper article right here in my system thread... The blurb about Von Schweikert however was from years ago... I am quite sure they are sound as of this time. I too am sad to see the situation with Meadowlark - only time will tell what will truly happen. I have heard some odd unsubstantiated rumors that I will chose not to repeat here. If they are true however, we would be seeing more Meadowlark speakers down the road...

Dlwask - Yeah, I too think that blurb about Von Schweikert was from years ago. They seem to be quite fine now, hope it remains that way!

audiofankj April 12, 2005 04:05

Hey Vince & Howard - Yeah, spacious and airy for certain at this point... The intent wasn't meant to seem like a wise ass, but I will try to update that pic periodically as changes are made to the lot... that mound will be leveled out soon and they should hopefully start the basement soon...

audiofankj April 10, 2005 04:29

System edited: LoL - Great idea, Howard! I posted a pic of the "new listening room" as of Wednesday evening...

audiofankj April 09, 2005 05:21

Lew4 - The Blue Heron 2's are absolutely amazing. I am really overly pleased with them. I do feel they will benefit in a larger room than I have my system stuffed into currently... however the break in took forever. Both figuratively and literally! What does bother me is whatever is going on at Meadowlark Audio they can't seem to have the honesty/integrity/balls to post on their site, and or set an automated reply to emails or voice mails. I have a couple of friends that were interested in purchase of some of their speakers and emails and calls go un returned. It is frustrating to me personally as Pat has always been helpful and extremely knowledgeable about amplifier interaction and such - I am sure he still is. As we all need a vacation, I support their stated, "winter break" or at least their message said that for a few weeks. However, their "winter break" has gone into and almost through spring and almost practically in summer soon! It frustrates me to see such a spectacular company potentially damage their reputation by not just returning calls and emails and such. So much for customer service, eh? As for the Blue Heron 2's - absolutely fabulous, now if there is a warranty issue, I am certain I would be steamed with no return calls and emails. I am *not* just bashing from hearsay... after I had been told of this situation, I have personally sent emails and left messages. I will take it a bit further, for someone to outlay the cash on speakers in this price range (even the Kestral 2's at a couple grand!) is just ridiculous to not have any manufacturer correspondence/support for two months! I hope whatever is going on with the "winter hiatus" comes to a satisfied and fullfilling end soon, so Pat can relax and start brainstorming his next revision... :) If you do get a chance to hear the Blue Heron 2's make certain they have at least 1,500 hours of good play time on them! No joke - even the reviewer had Pat pound the BH2's for over 2,000 hours prior to shipping him the review pair. I don't recall the review, it was by Wayne Donnelly and is linked on the Meadowlark Audio site. My apologies to those who feel I am being too hard on Meadowlark Audio. I do love the speakers, and the company. I also have the reality of having to bust one's backside and save for years for the price of admission for a said speaker they produce shouldn't be "rewarded" with this situation after the cash outlay... Time will tell, I hope I am proven the ass in this situation as I would rather have Pat and his speakers here in the audio world than for my "bitter" attitude as of late toward them due to them going out of business or the like. Honestly would love to see Meadowlark Audio not only be back on line, but with a new model or two soon! Lol - it really isn't that obvious it has been a bad day here, eh?

Vince - What a small world! Howard has been a pleasure to converse with via email and always helpful to offer his insight. As for my room... I am looking forward to it while at the same time dreading the packing and transport of all the gear (and beds, couches, etc.) to the new house. Heh, we may even be "lucky" enough to move it from our home now to an apartment and then to the new house under construction if this one sells fast. Nothing like moving twice in 6 months if that happens, eh?

audiofankj April 09, 2005 02:12

Islandear - I am currently running the Capitole Mk II SE through my First Sound preamp. I will continue to run the system this way until the cd player is totally broken in. Then I may try it direct to the amps. The sound is very engaging, liquid, and connects emotionally at this point. I am not certain I want to make a change. Every few days of play the AA seems to become a bit more refined in presentation and soundstaging and the dynamics more and more open with greater prowess as time is put on the unit. The SE upgraded caps are said to take a very long time to break in fully.

Howard - thanks for the kind words! It is always a pleasure sharing thoughts and experiences, thank you for your help with input and guidance! It is much appreciated!

Art - Yes, that would be the plan. I will do so. For those that say the AA Capitole Mk II SE out of the box will sound better than the EMC-1UP SE w/ spider are wrong. It doesn't. There was a bit of buyers remorse. Don't get me wrong the sound was good, but the entire presentation of the player is what makes the overall sonic landscape and the new out of the box AA was lacking overall dynamics and liquidity. It took a good two weeks or so to finally begin to gain the liquidity and fluid movement of the music being played. It has continued to improve with macro and micro dynamics from there. As of this afternoon the player just logged 500 hours of play time. Even though it may be 90-95% broken in, I will reserve final judgement for another month or so, as these upgraded caps are said to continue to improve over 1,500 to 1,800 hours. I would have not beleived it execpt I had gone through significant changes with my H2o Sig. Monos close to the 1,000 hour play time mark, and that was mostly due to the capacitors, as well as a good month or so for the First Sound preamp, again the capacitors... I will post my personal comparisons between the EMC-1UP and the AA Capitole Mk II SE down the road. I can tell you at this time the AA has clearly surpassed the performance of the EMC-1UP, however it SHOULD as it is nearly 4K more retail. I will tell you this, in retrospect the EMC-1UP seemed to have an "electronic signature" in certain regards. NOW before anyone says anything, let me be the first to tell you if you asked me two months ago, I would have vehemently argued the EMC-1UP was very emotional, analog and in no way electronic sounding. Again, now after hearing the AA Capitole Mk II SE in my system I can definately say the EMC-1UP is very good, however it has more of an overall warm tone to make the analog presentation. The bass seems to be a bit slighly overexaggerated in my opinion, or at least in my system as well on the EMC-1UP. I thought I may lose some bass with the AA, but not the case, at this point there is just as much if not a bit more macrodynamics, however the bass is more textured and articulate. My comment about the EMC-1UP being somewhat "electronic" is very obvious to me in hindsight - especially listening to just about any piano recording. There was an ever so slight, yet present "electronic" quality or over/under tone to the piano reproduction. Again, it is not fair to compare the two players as they are different price points, however I am noting my audible perceptions of the two. On some poor recordings the EMC-1UP was more forgiving, as it did a slight "warming" to the recording and didn't reveal the detail of imperfections as much. However, on good recordings that is where the AA takes the performance up a notch. Wow, how do I put this into words... Listening to Holly Cole's Temptation (not a great recording, not overly bad) the other night and with the AA I got the impression of the chestiness, the ever so slight raspiness of the vocals in the throat on passages, the breathiness, and slight inhale here and there, yet it wasn't the detail that was perceptible, but the overall subtle cues that were present that you hear when live that really transformed the listening into seeming MUCH more lifelike, than in the past when it was just a beautiful voice pinpointed on the soundstage eminating out of midair. What I am trying to say is it isn't necessarily the detail that you are hearing, but it is the subtlety of the detail that connects and interweaves into the music that makes it that much more realistic listening to it... More to follow in a few more weeks... but that is it as of now...

Ken - Are you kidding!? That second seat is for me to park my arse in when you stop over next, you have to tell me what you hear from last time! LoL. Well, as of this morning the new toy is still back ordered with no ETA... just wait longer, eh? I am extremely anxious to get the vinyl rig back online, however it is out of my control. We will definately have to get together sometime soon as the sound is really starting to solidify with the new player. I am still noticing improvements, however more subtle changes here and there now, so hopefully another few weeks and done.

General system comments overall - the system may have to go into boxes and be mothballed soon for a brief hiatus. The better half and I put a contract down on a new home and have ours on the market. SO - depending on if/when this house sells we may have to move to an interim appartment as our new home isn't supposed to close until the end of September or into October. As of now I am working on tweaking the basics for the dedicated listening room, which will be 15'8" x 21'9" by 9' ceiling... ceiling to be coffered, built in bookcase shelving to accomodate the vinyl are in the works, dedicated 20 amp lines, and general construction "beefing up" is underway, but other than that there is no room left for much more, as we are at the budget limit now with the house and its consumptions...

audiofankj April 08, 2005 02:33

System edited: New cd player. Sold my EMC-1UP when I purchased my new turntable rig knowing I would need the top shelf for the turntable. Thus began my search for front loading cd players... after much auditioning I ended up with another top loader, the Audio Aero Capitole Mk II with the Signature Edition upgrade from Globe Audio (the North American distributor) which replaces the capacitors and replaces the stock tubes with NOS cryo'd tubes. When the turntable finally arrives I will most likely have to look into a dual rack setup, or a "double width" rack, similar to what I see marketed as AV racks. If anyone has any rack suggestions, let me know... the challenges I am running into include the BPT (needs to be centrally located, as all but the preamp plug into it), monoblocks, First Sound preamp power supply takes up a shelf, and both the cd player and turntable need a top shelf. Other than that, no challenges. Perhaps 3 Zoethecus racks that are 2 shelves tall, however even then the preamp power supply will have to go on the floor on its own stand... hmm... open for suggestions.

audiofankj April 03, 2005 04:29

System edited: New Parking... I am actually a bit sad to say farewell to the last piece 'o college furniture I was still using... finally, permission was "granted" to upgrade the 'college futon' in the listening room. However, to my suprise the wife thought it wouldn't be appropriate to just have 'one' seat, thus I lucked out in getting the 'nod' for two leather recliners. The current room is a bit tight, however they should fit nicely into the new listening room which is hopefully entering the design phase in the next few weeks. And yes, I know - optimal ear height is too low when reclined... :) After a long day it is nice to grab a quick shower, throw on a soft old t-shirt & sweats, recline back with a cold Guiness or Harp if solo, or share a decent merlot with the "better half" and let the music envelop you...

audiofankj March 26, 2005 04:54

Hey Grant- Thanks again for another tube tip. I will make sure to look into it next time I am considering different preamp tubes.

Art- Are we married to the same woman?!?! LoL - I too am blessed with a wife whose ears can't hear the sonic changes or subtle differences. Matter of fact she can't or doesn't try to hear the difference between the main system and the little $200 BestBuy bookshelf system (used mainly for traffic reports in the a.m. while getting ready for the day) in the bedroom. It is always frustrating to me when I make a change to the system that seems SO revelatory and I ask my wife, "How does it sound now?" and I get the standard response from her, "the same as before..." heh.

audiofankj March 25, 2005 03:42

To be honest, I have replaced the Siemens 7308 gold pins with the Amperex PQ's and haven't had the desire to swap back and forth and make "formal" comparisons. My initial impressions of the Amperex PQ were perhaps a bit "over the top"... I don't think they are as "resonant" or "colored" as I initially thought. I do feel after they were in the preamp for a day or so, they sound very good. Improvements over the Siemens are a much more palpable midrange, perhaps just slightly warm - but seemingly much more organic. I don't think the Amperex PQ's are quite as transparent as the Siemens, but very close. Where the Siemens seemed to excel in neutrality and dynamics across the frequency range, I would say the PQ's excel by taking what the Siemens had going for it and adding a bit more musicality. I think the PQ's are just as extended, almost as dynamic as the Siemens. The Siemens may be a touch more quiet and transparent, however overall I would state the Amperex PQ's are more musical and the Siemens more analytical.

Thank you Art & Tvad... very good call!

audiofankj March 17, 2005 04:19

System edited: Pair of 1960 Amperex PQ "D getter" 6922 tubes just arrived today and inserted into the First Sound preamp replacing the Siemens 7308 gold pins. After the first couple of hours initial impression is much more body, perhaps a slight bit of resonance/reverb of some notes, however not severe and seems to add a bit of body and live sound to the notes... again just an initial impression, more update with extended listening with more familiar material.

audiofankj March 12, 2005 02:59

Steve - Thanks... I think. :) I just spent enough on the Amperex PQ's! Did I mention they were supposed to deliver yesterday? I was out of town on business, they re-attempted today and I went to the Postal Office and it was still on the truck... so I eagerly await their delivery tomorrow.

Art - you lucky man!

Did I mention the tubes should have been here yesterday? I don't like the patience thing when awaiting new audio gear.

audiofankj March 11, 2005 02:59

System edited: System changes: Changed speaker cabling to Synergistic Research Resolution Reference X2 (was using SR Resolution Reference FX X2) after comparing the two cables. The Resolution Reference adds a bit more extension and ambient ques in the recording than the Res. Ref. FX did, however the most noticable and significant factor for me was the Resolution Reference has much more "body" - especially in the midrange and vocals. This change has really helped get me to the sonic point I am striving to reach. Less important sonically, I moved the "old" glass covered print to the back wall that was behind the rack. Replaced with an oil on canvas painting of a pianist in an outdoor bistro kind of thing... put up a photo for lack of better description... I think it looks great in person and really like it. It is overwhelmingly too big for the room it is in now, however I do hope to begin construction on the "listening room" in the basement - perhaps by the end of this year.

audiofankj March 05, 2005 03:38

Hello Skushino, I have no problem with sharing my experiences with the FIM 880... my problem is it has been some time and my memory isn't *that* great. :) I do remember asking quite a few people and it came highly recommended from the slew of them out there. I do know it I was *very* suprised at the noticable sonic difference, especially given the relatively cheap price in this hobby. I seem to recall a quieter background as if a slightly lowered noise floor. Notes also seemed a bit more effortless, almost as you get with a power cord upgrade, like there is more power behind the notes... Soundstaging was a bit better and I think overall the sound seemed more pure. It has been some time, and those are the only areas I seem to recall, although there may be more. I would highly recommend the upgrade. I would also look into Albert Porter's PorterPort, as I have heard very favorable comments on that as well... I just learned of it after I already had the FIM. Best of luck to you.

audiofankj March 05, 2005 00:19

Hello Lloyd! Thanks for the compliment. It is actually quite enjoyable to be at a point with your system that you are content with... relaxing with just a minor tweak here or there in your mind, but no reason to consider changing a component.

I think Vince (Muralman1) meant well when he replied, as he does drive a monster of a speaker, but I don't think he read your blurb about "non electrostatic drivers"... So I assume you are looking for information on how the H2o's perform on conventional cone speakers...

Initially, I was quite concerned with the high damping factor, and (I think I posted this above, but didn't double check) spoke with Pat McGinty @ Meadowlark about it, in which he was quite excited and emphatic that the higher the damping factor, the better for a speaker "unless it's poorly designed" (Pat's words). Thus my concern subsided a bit as I waited the weeks for the amps to be built.

Once at home and inserted in the system it took me perhaps, all of maybe 30 seconds on all of 3 or 4 tracks to determine that these amps "would do just fine." Now, new out of the box is *not* the best they will sound, but you will be able to get an idea as to the control & power, yet graceful finesse these amps posess.

I would imagine the Von Schweikert's would be a fine mate with the amp. The First Sound Presence Deluxe MkII works fine with the amp as well. I am going to try to tube roll a bit on the preamp as I have had some stellar recommendations from Artg & Tvad who have both used the tubes I am using and what improvements can be had. As for your resistances, I don't imagine they would be an issue, I am running a 4 Ohm nominal impedance, however that is the beauty of Henry - he genuinely wants to make certain you are happy/satisfied with the amp after the purchase. We had many conversations post purchase, and Henry was adamant that if I was unsatisfied he didn't want me to feel obligated to buy. And, NO (if any are wondering) it didn't affect my outlook on the amps performance or sway me to keep something that may not be what I thought it should be. However, when you couple the performance of this amp in my system, at its asking price, coupled with the courtesy and integrity of Henry - it makes you quite comfortable to know it was well worth the leap of faith. That was rarely my experience in the past. This was a very pleasant change from the "norm."

If you are seriously considering an amplifier change I would suggest one other option Lloyd, I am not certain of which model you are looking at of the H2o, but you may want to contact Henry and see if he still has a *demo* unit travelling around the country. It may not have all the performance of the H2o Signature Mono's if that is the direction you were leaning, but it will give you a great impression of how it would mate with your speakers. For me personally after hearing the "standard" H2o Mono's on Henry's Scintilla's the amp purchase (in my head) went from "I am not sure how they will sound or mate" to "they work great with my preamp, and sound so phenominal... do I HAVE to wait 6 weeks for you to build these, Henry?" ...
I guess what I am trying to say is, rather than being overly concerned with the unknown and my overly active, analytical mind worrying about "what if" scenarios... after I auditioned, I was mostly unconcerned (except for the cone driver interaction) and just very excited to get them home and into the system with much hoping they will work as well on my speakers as they did on Henry's. As stated above, about 2 minutes of listening over a few songs, made me grin and shake my head... *warning* The grin happens quite frequently during listening sessions after 1,000 hours or so of break in on the H2o's... :)

audiofankj February 26, 2005 08:54

Muralman- Oh yeah, I am quite sure the Epiphanies are well shielded... as for technically what, how much, etc. I have no idea. If I remember correctly from their website they employ ERS cloth somewhere in the cable... the outer cable "sheath" is also a braided foil, rather than plastic which I would imagine may be for help with shielding... *shrug* I am not certain of what is going on inside, however I know they are the most dead silent, quiet, revealing, refined, etc., etc. power cord I have used. Hell for the price, they should come with a lead vest you wrap around em... although not sure it would help :)

FYI all of my Synergistic Research stuff has active shielding on it... that coupled with the BPT 3.5 Sig. Plus has combined to drop the noise floor into the basement... low level detail retrieval is phenominal... just last weekend I had the First Sound preamp set to "1" (lowest volume setting) and was trying to nap in the room, and the transients and dynamics were so involving I couldn't fall asleep... was actually a bit frustrating... it wasn't loud, yet I kept getting drawn into the music... ended up trying to nap and after realizing the cd repeated back to the first track - I went to the bedroom to catch a nap... don't get me wrong a good problem to have, however suprising as I haven't tried *very* low levels in many months.

audiofankj February 23, 2005 04:53

Tvad & Atrg - I was already looking into getting a pair, and Artg probably just snagged the "good" pair from the site I saw them on... :) No worries. I am going to be swapping speaker cables back and forth and want to leave as much of the system the same to get a feel for the true sonic differences between the two cables. Once that is completed, I will have to order a pair of the tubes. In all honesty, I too think the Siemens 7308 can be a bit analytical or perhaps not as full in the vocals as I would prefer. Whether "euphoric" or not, I always love to have a bit of "bloom" on female vocals... especially if it doesn't detract in other areas as well...

I greatly appreciate the info from both of you! Thank you.

audiofankj February 20, 2005 03:44

Lew4 - thanks for the compliments... the BH2's are coming along nicely. I have just over 1,000 hours logged on them at this point. However, I will confess about half of the total time has been at lower volume over night - so I am not certain they are all the way just yet. For those doubters... read the review of the BH2's from Wayne Donnelly and notice Pat McGinty chose to break in the BH2's for 3 months at high volume 24 hours a day... well over 2,000 hours. I think it has to do with the keldamp layers, the intermediate baffles, the dual woofers, the transmission line all add up to a longer than normal break in. From what I am hearing now, it will be more than well worth the wait. I will keep you posted. :)

Artg - Thanks as well. I am actually running the Siemens 7308 gold pins in the FS. I went with these on the recommendation of Emmanuel Go, and have not tried tube rolling in the preamp just yet. I have been told the Siemens 7308 are very neutral and dynamic as well as quiet. I would perhaps like a bit more midrange bloom, however not at the expense of higher noise floor, or lack of detail and dynamics. I would be very interested to hear your findings on other tubes in this preamp, as I am becomming *very* satisfied with the sound of my system overall as it is finally getting "dialed in" more so than I expected.

I have a Neuance shelf on order to place under my EMC-1UP and also may try it under the FS... I am also going to "experiment" with Synergistic Research's Resoultion Reference X2 speaker cable compared to my current FX Resolution Reference speaker cables. I am hoping one or both of these options may make an improvement. Where? I am not sure, but if they do, I will be satisfied - which I didn't expect. :) It is really at the point now where I am *almost* afraid to try or change anything. I will just keep tunes spinning and logging the hours and changes...

audiofankj February 17, 2005 04:36

System edited: System change: Upgraded my BPT 3.5 Signature to the new BPT 3.5 Signature Plus. Just inserted into the system - should be about 2 weeks for full break in on this unit, the majority of break in / improvement in the first few days. The Blue Heron 2's also have just under 700 hours at this point, so two weeks or so, both should be real close to fully broken in. Looking forward to the end of the "break in" game and sitting back and spinning some tunes.

audiofankj January 25, 2005 04:54

Hey Ken - I look forward to hearing some more vinyl spun at your pad sometime soon! Anytime you are feeling up for company, let me know, as your turntable is always singing beautifully! Yeah, once everything does "break in" and settle down, you will definately have to stop over for a listen! A few more months and I will be seeking your advice on "perfect" cartridge set up! (hopefully)

audiofankj January 24, 2005 17:52

System edited: Power cord upgrade... all power cords (formerly Electraglide Ultra Khan II Statement and Mini Khan Plus) were upgraded to the Electraglide Epiphany. I made the "mistake" of auditioning one in my system... and it was all down hill from there. After all the years of playing with cabling and such, it is still very frustrating to me to hear such a significant improvement in sonics when I inserted this cord in place of older Electraglide cables. A couple of the cables still need a week or so to "settle" and break in, however it is an obvious improvement out of the gate (err box).

audiofankj January 22, 2005 04:23

Jsen-

So far, so good! Unfortunately for the break in process, the wife and I went to Europe for New Years, and the system was shut down two weeks straight. They have been playing constantly since I have been back and have logged about 500 hours or so at this point. There has been definate improvement in dynamics and refinement so far, however I also know from experience my Ospreys and Nighthawks took well over 1,000 hours to finally attain that "relaxed" presentation if not a bit more. This is one area where I feel Pat McGinty of Meadowlark is WAY off on his literature that ships with speakers and why so many "like new, barely broken in" Meadowlarks are for sale on the 'Gon. The Meadowlark literature states approx. 300 hours for break in. That makes me laugh, especially when you can read Wayne Donnelly's review in Enjoy the Music / Superior Audio and read that even Wayne comments on his first pair of Blue Herons taking almost 6 months to open up. Wayne requested the review pair of Blue Heron 2's to be broken in prior to them being shipped to him... Pat played them 24/7 for 3 months! That is well over 2,000 hours... a bit of a far cry from 300. However, if you can tolerate and talk yourself through the *long* break in period I have always been rewarded with very natural and musical sound.

It will be a few more weeks before I have a "solid" comparison for you, however I was prepped quite well from my dealer that the new Blue Heron 2's are not great out of the box and the bass will be quite light until they break in, as stated in the owners manual as well. Brand new, out of the box and set up, I spun a few songs, I was calling my dealer in astonishment - and asked, "I thought you said they would be bass shy, as does the manual, when new?" The sheer amount of bass depth, presence, control, power was all readily apparent quite better than the Nighthawks even though the Blue Heron 2's were brand new. The highs seem to be a bit more extended and have more dynamic impact on cymbals and were the first area to sound close to being broken in. The midrange has just recently seemed to start to "blossom" and also exhibits more dynamics - even in vocals and such. I assumed the Nighthawks were 85% maybe 90% of the Blue Heron 2's performance. I can assure you, I was far from correct. Just how much better are the BH2's? I will keep you posted on my personal opinion as they break in.

audiofankj January 20, 2005 03:56

System edited: Speaker Upgrade: Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's replaced my Meadowlark Nighthawks... The "break-in" game has begun...

audiofankj December 15, 2004 23:26

Heh I posted it here on A'Gon before I replied here under my thread... If I don't see it up there in an hour or so I will repost it. It should be under the amp / preamp forum.

audiofankj December 15, 2004 04:41

Hello Guidocorona - I have just posted a review on the H2o Audio Signature Monoblocks... it should be in the forum threads after moderator approval...

Yes, they have progressed beautifully and I now consider them to be a "staple" in my system.

audiofankj December 15, 2004 02:59

Another brief H2o update... I left town early this week on business with the mono's having a bit over 500 hours on them. I was out of town all week and figured I would write up a blurb this weekend upon return. I did leave the amps on and playing while I was out of town. To my suprise (and delight) there continues to still be noticable improvement. I would imagine this has to be close to being fully broken in, as of this weekend will have just under 700 hours of play time on them. Initially when speaking with many other H2o owners - most stated about 150 hours to become close to fully broken in. I can only imagine the load of the Apogee Scintilla as well as its impedance drops to nearly a 1 Ohm load may help expedite the break in process compared to my 91 db, nominal 4 Ohm load. I shall continue to let the mono's play 24/7 and as soon as the presentation solidifies I will write up my impressions. Thanks for the interest and appreciate your patience for those of you who have contacted me.

audiofankj October 30, 2004 04:52

System edited: Well the H2o Signature Monoblocks have now logged a bit over 300 hours (although about half of the hours have been at low volume during the night) and have gone through some noticable refinement. The changes are still happening, to my ears the sonics are still improving from just a few days ago. The finesse and liquidity just seem to become a bit more palpable every few days. I am trying to not listen every day, just keep the music selection diverse and the amps playing. I will then check every few days with familiar recordings. I know many of you have emailed me regarding my opinions on the H2o Signature Monoblocks. I will be more than happy to share my opinions on the amps - I just want to make sure I have given them time for full and proper break in before any premature conclusions are made. They sounded good out of the box and new, however there has definately been modest yet steady improvement in finesse, refinement, imaging (becoming more pinpoint), as well as liquidity... I am hoping in the next 50 to 150 hours (couple of days to a week) I won't notice any further improvements and sit down for a serious listening session or two. If they continue to improve, I wont mind however, I just want to ensure they have fully evolved in their sonic presentation before judgement. I also plan to invite some locals over for a listen as well to get their thoughts on the new amps. Will keep all posted as it progresses.

audiofankj October 16, 2004 20:14

Muralman1-

At this point (11 p.m. EST, Sat. 9th) I have 205 hours of play time logged on the monoblocks.

They are still going through noticable changes in the past day or two. I chose to reserve judgement until the breakin process has finished. Hopefully, that won't be too much longer.

audiofankj October 10, 2004 03:24

Hello Raytheprinter! No worries on the Supratek preamp suggestion, I am certain it is a wonderful preamp. It was down to that preamp and the First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II. I had previously owned a Quicksilver linestage and was looking into both, thus most likely your statement.

Thanks for the comments on my writing... I should perhaps pre-write or at least proof read my posts... most are more like ramblings that often do not get proof read. :)
Break in has to be one of my biggest pet peeves. As for my power cables, for the first time in a LONG time I am really quite satisfied with my power cords. As effective as a power cord can be on bringing out the best in a component, it also amazes me how they are all cumulative as well. I would imagine my cd player doesn't draw the current of an amplifier, yet a good powercord still makes a night and day difference.

Alas, I find myself going through another breakin currently. However, this is one of the few that has not been painful. The new mono's sounded more than decent new, and about 80 hours on them now they have opened up nicely! Still have to force myself to wait a few hundred hours more before any critical analysis...

audiofankj October 04, 2004 23:56

Tvad - there are a few reviews and much info on the H20 amps on the Apogee user forum. Here is the link...

http://audioworld.com/sw/Forum1/HTML/003861.html

I too was intrigued by the buzz these amps were creating and was able to drive up to visit Henry Ho in Virginia about 6 weeks ago and listen to his amps driving the Apogee Scintilla's. I will send you a private email with Henry's phone number if you care to give him a call I am sure he can answer any of your questions. I am also under the impression there is a "loaner" amp (stereo model - I think) out there - although it may be in circulation.

Oh - one note of interest, there is reference to pricing on the Apogee site in which was introductory/cost-to-manufacture specials or deals in which Henry was offering to members of the Apogee forum before he took his company public. Quite a generous offer! I have heard a "broken in" pair of standard monoblocks and still felt the "retail" pricing is still a bargain. I chose to have Henry manufacture the "Signature" version of his monoblocks - in which he states he conservatively feels is about 20-25% better than the standard model. My amps are just beginning the break in process - so no comparisons as of yet.

The website should be up in a few days to a couple of weeks from what I understand.

audiofankj October 03, 2004 18:16

Thanks gentlemen! Yeah, the room no longer goes from 68 to 85 in less than an hour! The H20 Signature Monoblocks are just beginning to go through the "break in" process... as I have about 20 hours on them... and I have promised Henry (designer/engineer of H20) I would not put on my "listening hat" for at least a few hundred hours. However, with the system running in the other room, and the doors closed - the sound eminating keeps coaxing me to pop my head in, then sit down for a bit. I will patiently wait a few hundred hours before making any defined statements...

audiofankj October 03, 2004 04:57

System edited: Amplifier upgrade. Quicksilver V4 monoblocks sold. H20 M250 Signature Monoblocks installed & "breaking in"

audiofankj October 02, 2004 00:32

Thanks Ken,

Was a pleasure to have you over. We will have to do it again soon! I am hoping this fall will begin the search for a new analog rig, however you are aware of some of my other tangents I am currently exploring. Perhaps the analog rig will have to wait a bit longer. I am eager to see if the venture into the "new direction" yields any improvement. I will have to make that trip over to your oasis soon!

audiofankj September 05, 2004 03:35

Ken - thanks. I hope they work as well in my system as they do for you in yours. They are sounding fine so far!

Brooks - my apologies! I didn't mean for it to be contageous! I really am very pleased with the sonic presentation I am getting thus far with the Mini Khan's. I would imagine they would be superb on your VAC amps.

Which would I do first? Well... as much as I wanted to put cables on the components first, I was highly advised to start at the wall. Thus the first cable I upgraded was the Ultra Khan II Statement from the FIM wall outlet to the BPT 3.5 Signature. The advice makes sense, as everything passsing through the BPT is affected by the powercord on that.

The Electraglide literature that comes with the powercords states, "System component priorities for insertion are as follows: #1 preamp, #2 D to A converter, #3 CD Transport, #4 Power Amp." Now the dealer advice I have grown to trust through my own trials and tribulations strongly recommends the power conditioner first, then the cd player or preamp most of the time. When I say I have grown to trust, I have often "followed the hype" on a certain product with rave reviews, etc. only to be dissapointed in the performance. Sure it may be a great cord, but there is not enough said about those dealers that know how certain components interact with other cords.

Almost all have told me that power cords on the amps make the least amount of difference in the system. In my system however power cord changes on the amps are very noticable.

My best suggestion: Go spend $1 on the winning lottery ticket and buy one for each. No - nevermind then I will have to split the winnings from my lottery ticket with you! Well, OK, I can suffer with half of the lottery winnings. :)

audiofankj May 30, 2004 18:01

System edited: Satisfied? Getting there. With the recent addition of the NOS Siemens 7308 gold pins for the preamp the system really started to "gel". However, I didn't feel I had the dynamic impact and transient snap that was present when I had the Shunyata Taipans on the amps. They were replaced with Harmonix X-DC Studio Masters with all Wattagate plugs on both amps and preamp. The sound was very musical and natural, quite detailed, the only caveat was the bass was not as tight as I had experienced with the Taipans (also a less expensive cord). However, other than the bass impact seeming slightly bloated and not as fast and dynamic as it was with the Taipans the sound was "there" in my mind. I was about to throw in the towel on more changes, and decided you don't have to give up one area of sonics for another... you should be able to get both... Thus the saga continues. As of late yesterday the Harmonix X-DC Studio Masters on the amps and preamp were all replaced with Electraglide Mini Khan Plus power cords. One of the most frustrating things to me is "break in" on cables... thus upon insertion I sat down for a listen, with "buyers remorse" twinging in my stomach before the first note was eminated forth from the speaker. Well, out came the first note. "Pleasant and listenable" was the thought - honest - they were a bit closed in, the bass was a little shy. So up went the volume until I went to bed, and again the volume went skyward this morning as I set forth on a day of yardwork. (rewind - the Harmonix X-DC Studio Masters took all of 200 hours to break in, and sounded very closed in for the first 60 hours, and continued to sound gradually better through 200 hours.) After approximately 30 hours of play on the new Electraglide cables I am quite stunned. Let me also state I was told they will not sound "good" until they have 60-80 hours on them, and take 200 hours for total break in. I digress... anyhow with 30 hours on them so far they have opened up significantly. The bass speed is back. The bass isn't fully fleshed out yet, nor do I expect it to be only after 30 hours... however what was unexpected was the midrange and treble improvements. I honestly felt the Harmonix X-DC's were doing "fine" and had no qualms in either area. Well, as of this point with the Electraglide Mini Khan Plus on the amps and preamp the midrange has the same natural presentation and harmonic delicacy as with the Harmonix X-DC, however the soundstage has opened up, and there is more "air" around the vocals and individual performers in the soundstage. Acoustic decay and venue ambience is also more noticable. Not in the way in that you hear imperfections in the recording session, but more along the lines of the reverb and decay on a Les Paul guitar on a given track where it seems to fade off into the distance and the edge of the soundstage. The treble improvement was not imaginged in the slightest! I also felt the Harmonix was doing everything "right" in my system before as well. They were, as I was unaware it could get better. With the Electraglides now inserted a given cymbal stike has an immediacy of a lifelike presentation yet also has the shimmer and sheen often lost in music reproduction, compared to how it sounds live. This was not expected as the cymbals sound so much more realistic and lifelike without any edge. This is the best cymbal reproduction any music rig of mine has ever had, and is the first time this area of sonics has surpassed my "old system" which were Martin Logan speakers, and with the right combination of equipment they can sound incredible on transient speed, harmonics, timbre and decay with some of the best. At this point with only 30 hours of break in on the power cables, I am not really minding the fact that I know they should still improve. The sound is still a bit closed in on certain tracks in which I am very familiar with, however certain areas are already surpassing what was already constant in my system. Bass still needs to flesh out in depth (which usually takes the longest with cables - in my expereince) but the speed is back. One last note. The Harmonix X-DC Studio Masters *may* have been the "perfect" cord for me if I had a Pass Labs X250 or the like in which the bottom end has utmost control and speed already, the X-DC would most likely be a great match with very natural and musical presentation. However, in my system with the Quicksilver V4 monoblocks coupled with the X-DC's the sound in the bass was a bit tubby and bloated. Could I have happily lived with it? Honestly - if I hadn't heard the system with the speed of the Shunyata Taipan's first, the answer would be yes. However, knowing the bass control the amps had with the Taipan's it bothered me the "more expensive cord that sounded better in all other areas" could not compliment the amps and control the bass the way I knew it could sound. Thus the search continued... I will post any sonic changes now and then if any are interested.

audiofankj May 30, 2004 02:06

System edited: Changed out the stock tubes on the First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II with NOS Siemens 7308 Gold Pins. They improve sonics in all areas which was not expected. Most improved is soundstaging as well as midrange clarity, extension in both frequency extremes, and "air" in the presentation. These were added a few days ago... thus most likely have 60 hours or so on the tubes so far.

audiofankj May 30, 2004 01:32

System edited: Eighth Nerve Room Pack added to the listening room. Four corners added, four seams added, two echo's added. An additional seam was added at the ceiling on the front wall. This tweak was well worth the money invested. Midrange and treble seems most improved, as this allows more accurate decay and precise imaging at higher listening levels...

audiofankj May 28, 2004 02:17

System edited: Preamp change: Quicksilver Tube Linestage replaced with First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II. For those that know me, to say I am speechless would seem unbelievable. This preamp is stunning - especially since I am running stock tubes, power cord, and into the wall. This is how Emmanuel at First Sound recommends during break in... thus you are experiencing break in of the unit stock... after it has broken in sonically, he then recommends trying the power conditioner, new tubes, aftermarket power cords etc. Thus the unit has been playing for all of 26 hours now since arrival and it is truly an extremely pleasant suprise! I will post sonic changes after the recommended 200 hours of break in, NOS tubes, power cable swap, etc.

audiofankj May 21, 2004 02:02

Larry,

Let me state that I feel there was a definate system mismatch for some reason or another with the RSA Poiema's in my system. Where? What? I have no idea. I know they are quality cabling that bring the perfect balance to many people I have emailed and have tried many cables. In my system the Poiema's seemed to have an extreme live quality - in which I love. However, when there was any complex passage, or remotely complex passage the following happened (as best as I can describe) the instruments all sounded as if they were competing to be heard over one another. Another way I could describe it as if it was wired out of phase at the speaker. Or as I have heard some people describe an IC that had been "overcooked" on a cable cooker. Music that I have been very familiar with and have listened to for years, sounded compressed - or perhaps more accurately I found myself strugling to hear the lyrics, in cases in which I knew the songs by memory. It was the oddest thing. Piano solo, guitar solo, vocal solo sounded phenominal... add a few instruments it almost sounded like having the system turned up extremely loud in an eight foot square room with no room treatment.

I have owned older Synergistic Research in the past a few times, and knew what I was hearing (mismatch or not) was NOT how the system should sound. With the addition of the Resolution Reference X2 interconnects and the Resolution Referenece FX bi-wire there were improvements accross the board. When I say accross the board, I felt no area was left unimproved. The following areas were improved by the greatest margins:

-Soundstage: unbelievably wide and deep! Stage now expands past the boundary of my speakers and encroaches the side walls... most properly recorded music the entire soundstage seems much more expansive, while the lead vocalist is standing between the speakers, you can clearly hear the drummer 8 feet or so behind (even though the speakers are 30" from the rear wall)... extremely uncanny.

-Imaging: pinpoint. anywhere. did I mention pinpoint?

-Noise Floor: gone! I think this is due in large part to the X2 active shielding. However, minute details, nuances, subtle shifts in performance - such as breathing, etc. are all very palpable.

-Frequency Extremes: bass. bass is easily another octave deeper, yet retains all the composure of the recording. Very articulate and detailed, dilineated bass. Highs that have crystaline clarity without any edge. Midrange is acurate and whole. Just the right amount of body. It does not leave you wanting more, thinking it is lean, yet it is not overly embelished as some cables do...

-Overall Cohesiveness: I just added that term to overall try to convey what I think these cables allow the music to do. Each instrument has a place and sonic signature in the music, what these cables do well is integrate how the attack and decay is natural and intertwined with the other instruments. I wish I could better explain. To me some cables make it sound like 5 musicians on stage all playing trying to get you to notice their performance. To me these SR cables allow all 5 musicians to play together to notice their performance in regards to the WHOLE, or the sum of the music. You can still hear each instrument. However it is almost like the focus is on the music, not each instrument. Don't get me wrong - you can hear all of it. Detail, timbre, harmonics, attack, decay, etc. but it isn't one area calling attention to itself. I work in my office in an adjoining room to the listening room, and many times the music playing in the background just steals my attention... the music draws you in. Perhaps it adds the pace and rythmn along with the details. I hope this is somewhat explanatory. I am not a reviewer and don't always describe what I tend to hear the best. If there is any certain area you wish to ask me about - shoot. Or also feel free to send me an email.

Also FWIW, when I was talking to one of the technicians at Synergistic Research he mentioned the Resolution Reference was his favorite when I was inquiring as to "what do the more expensive cables bring to the table?" He mentioned that the higher priced cabling will give you increased detail, etc. however he felt at the expense of some of the musicality. He also went on to say Talon speakers use the Resolution Reference line exclusively at shows, etc - even though they could use the more expensive stuff, they feel the Res. Ref. line gives them everything. I am sure there was other info that I am not recalling as well. Again, if there is an area that you want to ask me about that I may have missed, or rambled over, let me know.
Happy listening.
Kirk

audiofankj May 17, 2004 22:24

System edited: All analog equipment sold. Music Hall mmf-7, Graham Slee phono amp, Cardas Neutral Ref. phono all sold. I am looking to upgrade turntables and am leaning toward the Nottigham Space Deck with Space arm. I am currently trying to determine which cartridge and phono amp for LO MC to go with. A Shelter 501 Mk 2 with EAR 834p (modified) combination as well as a Dynavector Karat 17D2 Mk 2 paired with a Dynavector P-75 phono preamp are the two combinations high on the list right now. Any suggestions as to cartridge match with Nottingham Space Deck with Space arm would be appreciated.

audiofankj May 16, 2004 01:39

Spencer-

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate the info on the Nottingham table. I am going to be visiting an analog shop that has Avid, Basis, Michell, Nottingham, Oracle, and VPI I think, perhaps a few more. I have also been speaking with the Cable Company and I have been told that the Sumiko Blackbird cartridge will mate very well with my Project 9 arm on my MMF-7. I was also told if I were to put the Blackbird on some of the other $2000 retail tables, I most likely only gain 10% increase in performance if that. So far all the advice they have given me has been spot on the money. Does this tend to sound accurate? Thanks again for the input.

audiofankj May 07, 2004 04:17

System edited: Received a Cardas Neutral Reference Phono cable to go from the turntable to the Graham Slee... as I am just getting into analog, I was unaware a "phono cable" would make a difference... I was using some older IC's I had laying around in the closet... I hope to have them burning in all weekend, and hope they do make a difference.

audiofankj May 07, 2004 04:06

System edited: Added Herbie's Audio Lab - Herbie's Way Excellent Turntable Mat. This tweak was highly recommended for my Music Hall from the guys at the Cable Company. This mat has definately lowered the noise floor, as well as improved micro dynamics and inner detail. Bass may have tightened up a bit as well. Highly recommended for the $44.95.

audiofankj May 03, 2004 19:16

System edited: Power cable changes: Shunyata Taipans on both Quicksilver monoblocks replaced with Harmonix X-DC Studio Masters. Synergistic Research Resolution Reference Mk. II on Quicksilver preamp replaced with Harmonix X-DC Studio Master. Electraglide Ultra Man on Electrocompaniet EMC-1UP replaced with Electraglide Ultra Khan II Statement... Plan on to focus on analog rig next, perhaps upgrade to First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk. II preamp. Any suggestions on table step? Gyro SE, Teres, VPI in the $2500-3000 range retail with arm and without cartridge?

audiofankj May 02, 2004 03:53

System edited: Speaker cable and interconnects changed from Ridge Street Audio Poiema to Synergistic Research Resolution Reference X2 interconnects and Synergistic Research Resolution Reference FX bi-wire speaker cables. Some power cables sold - currently auditioning Electraglide Ultra Khan II Statement & Harmonix X-DC (all Wattagate) for cd player, preamp, and monoblocks.

audiofankj April 30, 2004 02:42

System edited: Electraglide Ultra Khan II Statement, 3ft. 20A power cord from the wall to the BPT-3.5 Signature inserted into the system...

audiofankj April 24, 2004 06:23

Tvad- I have been playing the EMC-1UP non stop since arrival and installation. As of now I have 144 hours logged on it. It is my understanding that the unit takes anywhere from 200-300 hours to fully break-in. So, I will reserve final judgement until then. I will not have a direct comparison with/without spider on this unit. After reading comments on it being loose or sloppy, I opted to have my dealer install the spider before shipping. There is absolutely no play whatsoever and fits the cd like a glove. I regret not being able to make an A - B comparison on this unit. However, I have owned the EMC-1 in the past... for what its worth. As of know with the limited hours on it, the performance makes you smile and shake your head.

audiofankj April 16, 2004 02:44

System edited: Added a VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine. Used with Record Research Lab (recommended by many here on a'gon) and am astounded at the lowered noise floor & static. Worth every penny! Now to start cleaning the acquired collection...

audiofankj April 16, 2004 02:28

Thanks for the input. My music sellection is both vast in scope and light in depth in certain areas. I mostly listen to jazz and female vocals. Jerry Mulligan Quartet, Holly Cole, Dave Brubeck, Charlie Parker, Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, George Winston, Earl Klugh, Keb Mo... I would say 80% of my preferences are jazz, 15% alternative, acoustic, & blues with 5% classical. I have a great uncle that just gave me his LP collection, thus have about 700 LP's to clean ranging from the late 30s through the late 60s. Quite a lot is jazz and classical, with a notable portion of Hungarian music... The system is finally getting to the point I am now searching for more music, rather than the "next component upgrade."

audiofankj April 15, 2004 02:32