Hi Tboooe,
That review could have been written by me in regards to his experience of SET vs SS amps( maybe he's my lost twin brother? ) I know precisely where he's coming from. It all is really simply what type of sound do you want? He has had 5 different McIntosh amplifiers and our opinion of their performance is the same. Admittedly subjective, other listeners would vehemently disagree, it's how do you hear and what pushes your individual buttons. He and I obviously have the same buttons wired in identical fashion it sure seems.

I think he made it a point by several times repeating the power-watt issue. He wisely assume that for most audiophiles this is going to be the "sticking point", worrying about power output. So he's attempted to reassure by citing numerous examples, it's a tough sell for some audiophiles, no doubt.
Tboooe if I were in your position I'd travel if need be to hear and judge for myself. I believe that the Evolutions and LM 845 SET sound every bit as organic and wonderful just as he enthusiastically wrote.
Tboooe I don't know how you hear/interpret music, so what works for me may not satisfy you. Go and listen to them.
Charles,

charles1dad February 09, 2014 10:39

John,
They're made in Ontario (Toronto area).
Charles,

charles1dad February 09, 2014 10:08

Charles, that Coincident 845 integrated amp (Turbo 845SE) also looks intriguing (though I have to admit not visually attractive).
Is Coincident manufactured in Canada or China?

Cheers,
John

jmcgrogan2 February 09, 2014 08:15

Yup, saw that review myself. That's what got me thinking that SET may work with my Evolutions.

Daveyf, I will definitely audition before buying. Though hopeful I am not yet convinced 22w is going to work for my speakers.

tboooe February 09, 2014 01:37

Tboooe, having just read the review that Charles 1 dad related to, I can say this:
Saying that anyone prefers a tube amp to the Musical Fidelity Tri Vista 300 isn't IMHO saying anything too surprising, LOL.
The author IMHO also unfortunately didn't really know how to get the best from the GH's that he supposedly once owned---they need a SUBWOOFER IF YOU WANT BASS. PERIOD. But once you hook up a sub with any of the G's and get the blend correct, any of the G's ( including the GH's) will play rock or jazz or whatever, beautifully. Again, IMO none of the G's really can do bass without the assistance of a sub!
Do be careful IF you want to follow Charles1 dad's advice about low-powered SET's with your GE's...like i said before, make sure you have return privileges..;0)

daveyf February 09, 2014 01:15

Tboooe,
If you've seen this my apologies. Stevehuffphoto .com has a very interesting review of the SF Evolutions driven by yep, the LM 518! He loves the match and compares it with the Musical Fidelity Tri Vista 300 amplifier. He much preferred the LM SET, for sure you'll find this worth the time to read. Ok I'll leave you alone now. Best wishes.
Charles

charles1dad February 09, 2014 00:44

Tboooe, i would suggest that you do NOT consider a SET for the GE's. The GE's are fairly inefficient and can be a somewhat difficult load for the partnering amp.
All of the G models share this aspect. Even though you have a small room, I am pretty sure it won't be a great match. In my small room, and not listening too loudly, i think 50-60 watts/ch is about right. The G's actually perform better with a lot more power--my 250 watt/ch Rowland makes them sing.
Try a SET in your system, but I would recommend that you have return privileges.

daveyf February 09, 2014 00:11

Good choice! Another one is the Canadian company Coincident. They have a 845 SET integrated amplifier that's also a big strong bruiser with very good transformers and power supply. Makes a good comparison to the LM 518 you're looking at. Both use the 300b as the driver tube!
Charles,

charles1dad February 09, 2014 00:02

Thank you Charles. I would be getting the 518 which uses the 845.

tboooe February 08, 2014 23:49

Tboooe,
The LM 218 uses el84 as the output tube and the LM 219i uses the 845 (bigger transmission type tube). My gut (I could be off base) tells me the rugged and strong 845 tube would probably drive your Evolutions with more drive and control/authority. In addition this amp has serious transformers and a stout power supply. You can certainly learn more about these two siblings and compare them.
Charles,

charles1dad February 08, 2014 23:26

Charles, seems I should be ok since I rarely listen at levels louder than 75dbs and my listening room is rather small (< 200sq ft). I am looking forward to this!

tboooe February 08, 2014 23:22

Tboooe,
Often times people don't use as much power during most listening sessions as they think. A robust 845 SET amp has good headroom reserve as well. Much depends on listening levels, room size and music genre (to a certain degree). My typical listening volume is 75-80 db C-weighted range so with my 94 db speakers I'm usually using just 1/16-1/2 watt of power. So my 8 watt amp is just coasting along( and it sounds relaxed and unstressed). Even when I occasionally listen at 90-100 db it seems unperturbed. So it would seem a well built 25 watt range SET may be feasible if you don't blast you listening volume or have a hugh space to fill.
Charles,

charles1dad February 08, 2014 23:07

I was reading a review by someone using the Line Magnetic 218 with their Evolutions and they noticed the amps didn't output more than 1w at his normal listening levels. That gives me hope that the Line Magnetic 518 may work for me. I am going to try and find a local dealer I can audition from.

tboooe February 08, 2014 21:51

Hello Charles,

No, I don't think my friend will let me try it, as we are not 'local friends'. We've been cyber friends for many years, and have lent each other many cables and power cords, but never equipment. I like your thinking though, LOL.

I haven't even actually heard one yet. I just know that he got one and really likes it. Until he mentioned it, I didn't even know it existed. I have heard a lot of positive buzz around Allnic gear in general, but I have not had an opportunity to hear any of their products. I have done some cyber-searching since he enlightened me to it, and it has certainly piqued my interest. I haven't taken it to the next level yet, and actually sought out an audition though.

Cheers,
John

jmcgrogan2 February 08, 2014 21:40

Hi John,
That Allnic has a good word of mouth reputation and is noted for having good drive and dynamics. If your speaker has a relatively benign load and no steep phase angles the Allnic is a possibility. Would your friend let you try it? You never know.
Charles,

charles1dad February 08, 2014 20:39

I'll be very interested to see what tube integrated amp you choose and how well it mates. I'm also thinking about simplifying to a tube integrated amp. I think my speakers (91 dB, 8 ohm) are a better match for SET than yours are, though my room looks bigger too (25 X 15 X 9), so it may well be a wash.

A friend of mine has one of these Allnic T-1500 that has peaked my interest, but at only 12.5 wpc, it may not be enough for you (or me). LOL!!

Cheers,
John

jmcgrogan2 February 08, 2014 19:48

Hi Tbooose,
Hey, thanks for your kind comments. Yep the objective is to own the components that you'll love to listen to often and keep for many happy years. SET amplifiers can be a complete joy to own (with the proper speakers). I adore my 300b SET but it wouldn't be the best amplifier for your Sonus Fabers. However it is possible that a larger tube type SET could work well. For instance the 845 or GM 70 tube if built with high quality output transformers and power supply. These could be a reasonable alternative to a good push pull integrated amp you're considering, just a thought. Of course it goes without saying that an audition with your speakers would be ideal. Many people have spoken highly of the Line Magnetic SET particularly their 845, also the Melody line of SET 845 amplifiers. I wish you the best whatever you ultimately decide.
Charles,

charles1dad February 08, 2014 19:30

Charles I am sincerely honored you stopped by to comment. I regularly follow your virtual system thread as I trying to learn as much about tubes as possible before I make my move to a tube integrated for my system. I really want to try SET but the Evolutions seem too ineffecient though I have read someone achieved very nice results using a 22w Line Magnetic 518 SET integrated. I don't listen at very high volumes so I wonder what the lowest power I would need for the Evolutions.

You are totally right about knowing what you are after or trying to improve before upgrading. As for the Auditors I did enjoy them immensely. However, I always knew I wanted a bit more bass to anchor the sound. My original thought was to upgrade to the Cremona or similar floorstanders but then came along a very good deal on the Evolutions which I couldn't pass up. Whatever my upgrade I knew that I wanted to get off the merry go round for a long time with whatever my next speaker was going to be. Thankfully for me I stayed with the sonic signature I enjoy and got a beautiful speaker I could enjoy listening to and looking at for years to come!

tboooe February 08, 2014 19:02

Tboooe,
I enjoyed reading your speaker comparison and I for one appreciate your perspective and philosophical base. Most important you have to trust your ears and how you react spontaneously, this is a critical point, know what you like. Otherwise there's the temptation and risk to constant upgrade toward what exactly? I'm not implying that sonic gains aren't possible or a worthy goal but it can be that sometimes we don't fully recognize and appreciate what we already have. Admittedly this can become a very slippery slope where pursuing "better" sound supercedes really enjoying your music. By no means am I anti system improvement, but one should contemplate the reason or need to stroll down the upgrade pathway. I get the impression that you sincerely enjoyed the SF Auditors and felt content and involved with their contribution to music reproduction.
Charles,

charles1dad February 08, 2014 18:28

Tboooe, I think with a good tube integrated and some bass traps, you will find that your GE's will come alive. Do report back.

daveyf February 08, 2014 17:37

Thank you Daveyf! I hope I didn't send the wrong message that I was dissatisfied with the Evolutions. I am indeed very happy. With audio I tend to avoid superlatives and high praise because 1) it keeps me from getting flamed and 2) to me after certain price points the difference is more subtle and incremental. Perhaps I just have wooden ears or do not place a high enough value in the incremental improvements so say something is drastically or majorly better. I think what I am hearing is more of a testament to the performance of the Auditors and less an indictment of the Evolutions. That being said, I will be looking into getting a tube integrated soon and adding some Vicoustic bass traps.

tboooe February 08, 2014 17:13

Tboooe, I think you may be short changing the sound of your new GE's. The reason I say this, is because as you go up the line with SF speaker's, they become more and more of a lens on the upstream gear. IME, this is a double edged sword; anything upline that isn't up to the quality and ability of the G's will be made to stand out like a sore thumb. As an example of this, when I added room treatment and a single tube change in my preamp, the sound took on a very much more realistic aspect. I would suggest looking at some of your upline gear as possible culprits as to why you are NOT hearing major differences between your old Auditors and your new SFGE's.

daveyf February 08, 2014 15:05

Thanks John. You know, when you can just stop analyzing the music and chasing the next new technology, this hobby is really enjoyable. I am very guilty of tweaking and buying lots of gear, being an engineer at heart I find the technical side of audio really interesting. That being said, I am at a point now that I know I can enjoy a simple system costing fractions of what I used to own. If the right deal had not come by unexpectedly I would still be happy with my Auditors.

I know better than to say I will never upgrade these speakers but what I love about the Sonus Fabers is that their sound is timeless. For whatever reason they are just easy to listen to. I don't feel like I need to sit and analyze for every last bit of detail or air or (insert audiophile lingo here). They may not be the most sexy or dynamic or transparent sounding speaker but for me that's the appeal. I know I will always enjoy their sound.

tboooe February 08, 2014 14:41

I know exactly what you are talking about when you speak of the law of diminishing returns in this hobby Tboooe. It hits hard and early.
I have scaled back my system greatly in the last few years due to the economy. I am now using $3,200 speakers in place of $21,000 speakers which I owned for 5-6 years, and to be very honest, my current speakers are not as good. However, how small the difference in sound is compared to the difference in price was a real eye-opener for me. A lesson that surprised me, and one that I will not soon forget.

I'm glad that you are enjoying your new speakers. If they sound 1/10th as good as they look, you are living large. I've always been a fan of SF speakers, even though I've never owned any myself. I've certainly flirted with buying them a few times, but the right deal just never materialized for me.

Enjoy the music,
John

jmcgrogan2 February 08, 2014 14:08

Ok after having lived with the Evolutions for a week I can say that I am pleased. I already knew I really liked the Sonus Faber house sound so resisting the urge to get another speaker brand that may have given me the "new girlfriend" excitement was definitely the right decision.

I didn't realize how warm my Cremona Auditors were until I listened to the Evolutions. Truth be told I prefer a bit of warmth. The Evolutions are definitely have more clarity and a cooler sound but still a touch of warmth. They still capture the organic nature of voices and stringed instruments very well. I am able to hear more nuance that helps to bring me closer to the human aspect of music. However, I wouldn't say these speakers are very resolving or detailed. They just seem to capture the true natural aspect of music without sounding overly detailed or clinical. For my listening preferences, the Evolutions are a very good match.

I am also enjoying the added bass. In my small room and at my low listening levels there is plenty of bass. In fact, on some songs the bass seems to be overwhelm the room, clearly I have some resonance issues I need to address. That being said, the added bass helps to bring the wholeness to the music I was missing with the Auditors.

Overall, I am pleased! Are they worth the price over the Auditors? For me, absolutely not! Luckily I got a very good deal otherwise I wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Don't get me wrong, the improvements are clear and evident but at the same time, also incremental. In a way, Evolution is an appropriate name for these speakers. The law of diminishing returns in this hobby really applies here for me. The fact that I got a good deal and that I knew I really liked the Sonus Faber house sound made this a good decision for me. But for others, I really wonder if a $22k speaker is really worth it over a very good $5k speaker. Perhaps my ears are not sensitive enough to truly appreciate the improvements or I simply don't place the same value on the incremental improvements as others. Like everything else in this whacky hobby, value is relative and subjective. Just have fun!

tboooe February 08, 2014 12:17