Music Transcendent

by barrysandy on All Out Assault

Description

Decades of experimentation, since the late '60s, have taught me you're never done trying new things if you want better sound. I'm now having a serious love affair with tubes, have finally reconciled with CDs/SACDs, and am embracing all the new tools available for room measurement that never existed when I started this hobby.

In the past few years I added a ARC Ref 40 pre-amp that has tremendous spacial and textural resolution, something that was missing from my solid state front-end. I've been suffering from serious sleep deprivation since I got it. It's that good.

After many years of vinyl only (I was a diehard) I added a Marantz SA 7 S1 CD player. This was the first CD player I really enjoy listening to and I've kept it. SACD can rival vinyl & well-recorded CDs sound really good. The addition of a Lyra Etna cartridge, the ARC REF 10 phono and the TW Acustic TT however, all have added a presence and naturalness for analog playback that's simply breathtaking. +1 for Vinyl!

I can't leave anything alone. Most of the components are very heavily modified, especially the Sansui TU-717, and both the Counterpoint SA-220s which actually use a completely different circuit than the original amplifier. The first SA-20 became an NP-220 courtesy of Michael Elliott. It has Mullard brown base CV-569 ECC35s (6SL7s), CuTF V-Caps, and a 160,000 uF all-Black Gate power supply with boatloads of TX2575 resistors in all critical places. I loved the sound of this hybrid amp so much I added a second one that is almost identical. These amps are classics and the proverbial "open window" when it comes to transparency and tonal color. Too bad few will get the chance to hear these since the "retirement" of Aria Audio.

The system speakers are tri-amped Magnepan 3.6s and include Kinergetics subwoofer towers(5 10" woofers per side). One Counterpoint NP220 drives the tweets/mids, the other the 3.6r bass panels, and a recently added Krell Evolution S2250e drives the subs providing a deep and solid foundation. This system's flat to about 16 Hz.

The Pass Labs XVR-1-3 3way XO is incredibly flexible. It would have been impossible to get this tri-amped system set up as well with an ordinary XO as the Magnepan 3.6s have some funky passive XO slopes you need to emulate. I'm using it in bandpass mode. Much more transparent this way.

I ran out of wall outlets and gave up on active quad amping. I upgraded the only remaining passive tweeter-mid speaker XO in the 3.6s to something exotic - Duelund Cast caps and inductors instead of another XVR-1. It was well worth it but big passive XO parts are best broken in with a cable cooker if you want to live long enough to hear what they sound like (nothing) when broken in. Nelson, you will have to fund your own retirement plan!

All the system cabling is supported by Cable Elevators - I tried using the empty champagne bottles but the system didn't quite sound as good -- burrrpppp.

The room had a makeover with acoustic treatment. It's 13.5 x 27' and is in the basement. An RPG pro diffusor sits behind the speakers with Real Traps & GIK Acoustics along the side walls & in corners. The back wall also has an RPG pro. The speakers have been moved away from the front wall so that second relection arrival time is almost 10 milliseconds delayed from direct radiation at the listener location. This treatment work substantially improved the imaging, depth, and bass control. You just can't get good sound without paying serious attention to room acoustics.

I've finished the final room EQ on the subs using REW and the DSPeaker Anti-mode 2.0 Dual Core processor. What a great gadget! The EQ settings still need a little work below 100Hz to minimize group delay. None of this impacts the main speakers so that transparency is maintained.

Various AZ cables were added and all have been "cooked". The transformation is remarkable. I've tried other stuff and I wonder why people spend $1,000s. The power cords are LessLoss.

The system power outlets are all Hubbell hospital grade 20 amp jobs on their own lines.

Let's talk about the music. It's thrilling to listen to it. There's not enough time in the day. There's lots of immediacy a trait which I value the most, wonderful tonal color, and the sytem has a terrific sound stage with solid center imaging. Most notably, there's a sweetness and liquidity somewhat like you'll only hear from SET audio systems. Overall balance is perfect, neither warm or bright, but with power and authority.

I listen to all kinds of music, classical, pop, jazz, world, etc. and this system is very musical. I'll miss the Aleph 2s heatsinks that all ran at 125 F but the sound still warms my heart!
Read more...

Room Details

Dimensions: 25’ × 14’  Large
Ceiling: 8’

Components Toggle details

    • Lyra Etna
    Who knew vinyl could sound this way? Absolutely stunning. Still love it as much as the day I bought it so I got another as a back-up. On most any material, this takes my breath away. You are there.

    The 2nd replacement cartridge sounds even better.  Set up with Adjust + and loaded at 350 ohms - a bit more dynamic as you'd expect.  Oh, no, here comes the Lambda!
    • Triplanar Tonearm & Mint Protractor IV w/ VII Upgrade
    Tri Mai upgraded this baby with new wiring & bearings. It was a worthwhile upgrade at a reasonable cost. I also used a Mint Best Tractor Protractor custom measured for the arm. (I kept the brass parts on - more colorful).
    • TW Acustic Raven Anniversary
    Upgraded with Black Night copper platter, 3 motor unit, feet and the mat. This is a beautiful piece in looks as well as sound. I later changed the TW mat to a SPEC Audio AP-UDI for a little more open and dynamic presentation without losing any of the wonderful tonal color the turntable is known for.
    • Phoenix Engineering Roadrunner
    I liked the Walker Audio MC, then the Eagle motor controller with the VPI which was even better.  It didn't work with the TW's DC motor controller but wasn't needed. Not so, the Roadrunner. The Roadrunner tachometer showing speed display on the left is not for the OCD crowd as that last digit is not always a "3". Speed stability of the TW Acustic TT varies < +/- .003 over 3 minutes or so.
    • Audio Research Corp Reference 10 Phono
    Decided to upgrade the phono section and picked ARC since I liked the REF 40 Anniversary so much. After installing all new tubes, tube rolling the power supply ensued.  I liked the 6550C SED Winged Cs in the REF40, but here they were a little too soft sounding. The Sovtek 6550 WEs had a more definition, but still sounded a trifle hazy. The Shuguang KT-88 Z Treasures solved that and I finally ended up with them after about 300 hours of listening. A few signal path resistors have been upgraded with TX2575s. Very nice.
    • Luxman D-10X
    Really enjoying this CDP.  Checks all the boxes and is just a wonderful listening experience on all kinds of music.
    • Marantz SA 7 S1
    The first CD player I heard that makes beautiful music! A good SACD is simply stunning and rivals vinyl although they don't sound the same. Has a little more clarity if you ground it, short the digital clock input & put a copper sleeve on the power cord against the unit.
    • Sansui TU-717
    Mint condition with highly modified with Black Gate caps throughout, Schottky rectifiers and more. This sounds nothing like stock thanks to Stereo Surgeons and an APS-9 antenna & invites serious FM listening. Too bad there's not much worth listening to.
    • Antenna Performance Specialties APS -9B
    Has a Channel Master 9537 rotator, a Ken Wetzel low-loss high performance balun & 57 feet of RG-11 (the fat stuff). Routing it was a PITA! Using FMFool.com to find the exact channel directions. This was originally installed by a firm who also did work for the US government military.  I had no doubt when I got the bill.
    • Audio Research Reference 40 Anniversary
    Sounds as good as it looks! Favorite tubes are the 6550C Winged "C"  and the stock Sovteks 6H30s.  Forget the expensive DP version.  All tubes are matched within 2% with the Amplitrex AT-1000. A very few signal path resistor mods here too.
    • Magnepan MG-3.6R
    These sound nothing like stock because much of the original has been replaced. They have been completely re-wired with cryo Neotech 6'9s copper, have Vampire BPHEX solid copper binding posts, no fuses and no "socks" underneath the grill cloth. Very transparent and dynamic. Internal and external stock crossovers are gone....
    • Custom 3.6R Crossover Duelund Cast, etc.
    Replaced stock internal mid/tweeter XO with outboard box containing Duelund Cast & V-Cap caps and inductors. Hello reality!
    • Mye stands 3.6s
    More heavy metal! If you have Magnepans these stands make an audible difference and are well worth the money. These have been modified by firmly anchoring the rear mid-speaker frame braces to the speakers instead of their wood grill frames.  This allows better transmission of unwanted vibration from the speaker to the stands and into the CMS LS .8 speaker feet that are mounted under the steel frame bases.
    • Kinergetics SW-800
    Five 10" drivers. Woof , woof, woof. Too bad they don't make these anymore. REW software confirms they have measurable flat response to 15 Hz. Good match with the Magnepans.
    • Pass Labs XVR -1, 3 Way
    3 way XO w/ millions of settings used in band pass mode. You can change slopes, XO points, and Q settings & compare results almost on the fly.  Over 200 parts changes were painstakingly made and auditioned in 30 iterations over an 18 month period!   Left and right channel amp outputs balanced via the dials with a DVM to within .1mV to precisely balance the soundstage. Yes, it matters.
    • Counterpoint NP220 Platinum Plus #1
    One-of-a-kind amp from Mr. Elliott with an entirely different circuit than its namesake, along with several parts upgrades from me. For the 3.6 panel tweeter/mids: It's a platinum premium NP220 amp w/ ECC35 CV569 Mullards (fantastic and rare tubes),CuTF V-Caps,a Plitron choke & a main supply w/ all Black Gates totalling 160K uF coupled w/ solid high-grade copper buss bar. Critical resistors are all TX2575 naked Vishays & Cardas internal wiring. It even has damped circuit boards! Very sad you've retired Jack you will be missed!
    • Counterpoint NP-220 Platinum Plus #2
    Liked the first one so much, needed another one of a kind to assure the Magnepan's sonic coherence. This one drives the 3.6 Bass panels. Black Gates for the Power Supply no longer available so used the biggest Siemens Epcos Sikorels that would fit. These caps are just as famous at the BGs and maybe even better sounding, but very hard to find. Terrific build work done on a complex circuit topology by Music Technology. B.T. described the sound as "lovely".
    • Krell Evo S2250e
    Perfect amp for the subwoofers with 500watts/ch - way more than needed. The bass on this system is subterranean - flat and powerful, but not boomy to below 15Hz. This amp is well-built, doesn't run hot, isn't that heavy and really has the bass control Krell is famous for. Sorry, no class D for me.
    • Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper
    Trying to describe the sound of these is almost impossible. May be a touch forward sounding.
    • Acoustic Zen Hologram IIs
    All speakers now wired with AZ. With a tri-amped system there is lots and lots of cabling. Don't like it? Just turn the lights off!

    I also tried Duelund DCA DCA16GA X 2.  It's very nice an inexpensive to boot.
    • Power Cords LessLoss, Neotech & Oyaide
    One LL feeds all the front end components via a Furutech etp-60; the others feed the two custom Counterpoint  amps. Neotech NEP-3003 feed the CD/SACD player and phono amp. The Oyaide Tunami V2 feeds the XVR-1-3 way
    • Other room treatments Real Traps & GIK Acoustics
    Besides the RPG Pro diffusors, Real traps panels for first reflections & GIK corner traps. Tightened up the bass & really helped center the sound stage as the room is not symmetrical. Pic shows the completed room with panels mounted.  Each one of these was placed and then REW was run to check frequency response, group delay  and decay.
    • Critical Mass Systems Center Stage V2 .8 & 1.0 Component Feet LS Series Loudspeaker Feet
    I am in the process of upgrading the CMS 2s footers to CMS 2Ms.  I really didn't want to do this, but the 2MS are significantly better in all sonic aspects.

    Now have 11 sets of these under almost everything. .8s are under the ARC power supplies and the Sansui tuner. 1.0s under everything else except the 2 Pass Labs XO power supplies where I'm using Sound Damped Steel. Noticeably larger and more continuous soundstage, much better 3 D images, better attack and decay, and improved tone / harmonics. I was quite amazed by this...and the money spent. Subsequently, added LS .08 loudspeaker feet with even more of the same "goodness".
    • Equi=Tech 2RQ
    Balance Power unit (front end - not amps).  Have tried various power conditioners before and didn't care for them.  Read the technical info. This is something else and well worth it. The result is dead silence and a noticeable sense of increased interior spaciousness and depth.
    • DSpeaker Dual-Core 2.0 Antimode

    Used with REW and ONLY in-line on the subs where it'll do no harm.  I upgraded the power supply to an standard LPS type and got rid of the wall wart.  As the system's improved I've tended to bypass this unit as it's not all that transparent.

    .


    • REW Room EQ Wizard
    Used in conjunction with the DSPeaker Antimode to achieve great room response in optimized frequency & time domain. This program is really quite amazing but takes some time to learn how to use.
    • Leica Disto - Laser Measure E7400X
    Want great soundstaging? Measure speaker distances to the listening position within 1/10".
    • Audiodharma Standard Plus 3.5 Cable Cooker - Smokin'!
    I love this thing and use it a lot.  You too can be a cook! Myles Astor is right. You need one. Noise floor drops, more detail and a little more space. A very worthwhile upgrade and one that'll make you stop chasing cables. Recooking every 4-6 months brings back transparency. I also use this to burn in all my mod parts before installing them.
    • VPI HW 16.5 Rec Clean - Foaming Action
    Yes, it's the VPI but... with secret, proprietary, organic rose cleaning solution developed in the French countryside. Wonder why this stuff keeps evaporating? Good for a pre-clean on older albums.
    • KL Audio KD-CLN-LP200 Ultrasonic Record Cleaner
    Use the VPI for the heavy scrub first and then this baby as follow-up. Total cleaning and drying time about 15 minutes per record.
    • KL Audio Filter System
    Added tubing, a pump, and a FlowMax .35 micron pleated filter canister to my KL Audio record cleaning machine.  Run the pump and filter to clean the KL tank water for ~ 10 minutes after cleaning a dozen records or so. Can measure water "dirt" with a total dissolved solids meter (TDS). They're cheap too. Only I would ask for one for my birthday. No wonder my family doesn't talk to me.

    Ack!!! Just saw a .2 micron filter with 40% more filtration for $5 more.  No COVID-19 in my RCM waste water now.
    • Hi-Fi Tuning The Supremes
    These are in every piece of equipment. Nice step up from the originals.
    • Feickert Adjust + Cartridge software
    For cartridge azimuth adjustment, the end results are a more coherent sound stage. The software overloaded my computer soundcard so I had to pad down the output of the phono preamp output. A little fiddly to run all the cartridge position set ups. The standard bubble level's worthless. It's well worth the time and expense!
    • Herbie's Audio Lab HAL-O III Stabilizers
    Probably better than those rubber/sorbothane things. Cleaned up the sound of the REF40 and Phono 10 a bit when used on the PS 6550C tubes and 6H30s.
    • Amplitrex AT-1000
    Best new tester for tube matching. You can do curve tracing matching mu and Gm across a range of voltages with this hooked up to a laptop in computer mode. I have enough matched tubes to last at least 20 years.  Hope tubes don't turn out to be old technology.....
    • Get away Vehicle Richard Sachs custom
    Forget audio. Not as fast anymore and getting slower, but has Sachs appeal!

    I take obsessiveness seriously.  When I was younger (a couple of years ago??!), the tires on this bike were woven silk and glued on the rims.  Now, that's old technology, so I've upgraded to clinchers.

Comments 92

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Owner
System edited: Almost done. Substantial room mods compliments of Real Traps & GIK Acoustics. Well worth the effort. Pics to follow.

barrysandy

Owner
Last board in the Sansui Tu-717 tuners's getting cap upgrades (there a lot!) & the unit's getting an F connector upgrade from Ken Bernacky, "Chief of Surgery" Stereo Surgeons in East Hartford, CT now, plus some other stuff including alignment. Stay tuned (argggghhh!).

Also will add 2 LessLoss power cords in 3 weeks to the front end, one to the Furtech - ETP-60 (not listed) feeding all the source components TT, Pre-phono, CD player, tuner, and the Pass active XO and; two, to the the Pass Labs X0.2 which is wall connected directly separately (All front end stuff, line stage and Pass Labs XO are grounded at the same point. All power amps are ungrounded).

Will also add a special Chris VenHaus PCord from the Furtech 6 box outlet to the Marantz CD player (It's Neotech 6N copper w/ Furtech Gold FI-25 connectors). This baby's still breaking in.

I'm not a real Power cord geek but let's see what happens here.

barrysandy

Owner
System edited: Honey, I shrunk the wallet! Just a few recent additions. Like almost the entire front end.

barrysandy

Owner
Well if you'll let me sleep on the couch in your beautiful listen room I'll bring all 75lbs of the Pass Labs XVR-1-3 over and spend the night at your place (how's the food?)!

barrysandy

Owner
The floor spikes are not that expensive - give them a try and see what you like better.

barrysandy

Barrysandy: I am looking at MYE stands for my MG 20.1s. Would you recommend the floor spikes on a clay tile over concrete floor? Some of this is new to me. Puerto

puerto

Barry, Thanks for the sage advice on the stands. I would love to have the flexibility associated with bi- or tri-amping as you have (Never should have sold my Krell KMA-160s). I am able to tailor reasonably effectively, though, by using resistors to attenuate the highs and and making adjustments to the settings of my subs and their associated high-pass filters. Thanks again, Joe.

jtori

Owner
Here's most of my post on audiogon: One of THE most effective upgrades you can do but like everything else read the detail....

Actually the Mye stands were a very interesting addition. I liked them immediately, then had reservations, then adjusted a bit around them and reached a much better level of transparency overall. Like the reviewer says "Way Recommended". The impact's not subtle -- way more beneficial than cable changes.

Improved low level detail across the frequency range was the first thing I noticed and I really liked the new level of immediacy and lower noise floor. I was really really happy.

When I listened more closely however, I became convinced that the (mostly mid-bass) panel distortion that was eliminated was part of the voicing of the speaker. Uh oh.... There was now a bit of a dip in the mid to upper bass response because the distortion provided some harmonic content there. It was subtle, but the frequency balance was shifted ever so slightly with a little more emphasis above and below (Reminded me vaguely of when I took an Alps volume pot out of a preamp and substituted a high grade metal film stepped attenuator - more clarity but loss of some warmth). The highs were a lot cleaner as was the lowest bass. It wasn't etched by any stretch. Frankly I was just a little bugged about the tradoff.

I was able to fix this easily as my 3.5s have a sub and are tri-amped using a Pass Labs XVR-1-3 with lots of settings - I just "turned up" the mid-bass a vry little bit. Even if you don't have this flexibility you could pad down the tweeter and possibly achieve the same result. It's not a huge frequency imbalance - but it is noticeable maybe 2 dB? It's more a little distortion than a little warmth so you want to get rid of it. I think after awhile you wouldn't notice or you'd forget about it. (Unless youre totally obsessed like me. (Help me!!! Help me!!!!!!).

The Mye stands build quality is really excellent. When attached to the speakers you've literally got 2 boat anchors. Grant could easily charge more and get away with it but he's priced them very fairly.

The response on audiogon suggested some of the sound might be attributable to the concrete floor. I disagree. I would however use the points on hardwood floors. Hope this helps. Barry

barrysandy

I'd like to compliment you on a well thought out system. Like you, I own a pair of MG 3.5Rs. I have contemplated adding the Mye stands to my speakers and am interested in knowing your experience with them. BTW, my system can be found in the "Done for Now" section of Virtual Systems. It's titled "Sanctum Sanctorum".

jtori

Owner
Aporigine:
Haven't had a chance to listen to it much but will let you know. Initial impressions are consistent with everything you read about it. Very open, transparent & immediate, dynamic, no real sound of it's own. There's no touch of added warmth like the highly modded classe DR-6 II but there is a high end sweetness.

barrysandy

Hi
If you would, I'd like your evaluation of the X0.2 preamp in your system. I also have one such, and I really like it.
(see my "Big Rig" in Evolving, thanks)
cheers apo

aporigine

Owner
DBL, we should hook up - you're IN MY Back yard! Will send you an e-mail. I don't have the software have the mic and preamp, Haven't gotten to this yet and would like to.

barrysandy

Do you already have all the stuff you need to make those acoustic measurements? I've got the ECM-8000, a firewire pre-amp/soundcard and two different software packs. I used Terry Montlick's services and am about to resubmit to him. I would recommend him wholeheartedly. Acoustics where impossible for me to sort on my own. Terry made it stupidly quick and easy.

BTW - I am in West Chester.

dbld

Owner
Nope. Aleph 2s for tweeter/midrange. NP220 for bass panels. S55oe for the subs.

barrysandy

I'm gleaning that you're triamping? Did you bypass the internal crossover to run the tweeter directly?

gladstone

Owner
I'm using the bass panel but rolling it off more quickly. At this point I've got the hi & lo pass filters set for 53Hz with 18 dB per octave slopes for both. The Pass Labs filters for an 18 dB slope are 6 dB down at the XO point (they're really two Butterworth filters, a 6 & a 12 in series, so I guess they're a Linkwitz-Riley arrangement combined).

All this is level adjusted by ear now. I'm going to use the TrueRTA audio software, a Behrenger ECM-8000 mic and a Sound Devices MP-1 pramp feeding a laptop to run in-room responses for all XO points and fine tune the adjustments to get everything flat. If you're into reading literature read the Pass website for setting XOs - some is basic some's more interesting. The XO is primarily sold to speaker designers I'm told.

barrysandy

How are you integrating the sub towers? At what frequency do you bring them in? Are you using the bass panel or attenuating it?

gladstone

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