how does one go about assembling a system that can qualify to be listed in the category,"ALL OUT ASSAULT." One way is to read up on a few years of "recommended components" lists from the high end magazines and venture out, with a fat wallet, to visit a few premium audio salons. By just BUYING the top products on the lists, you'll certainly make the audio salons happy , and hopefully, even you may be satisfied by owning the best money can buy. Having years of personal experience in owning many types of excellent audio gear adds a level of surety that only experience can add. Going through this process often enough, you may come to the conclusion that you may never get "THE MIXTURE " that you've been looking for. As the saying goes,"If you want it done right, do it yourself". There is also a saying that tells us, "Do what you do best ,and leave the rest to others." Time has also taught me the importance of another saying, "Do what you think is best." This submission i am presenting is based on preferences I have developed since I built my first piece of audio gear back in 1955 . Back then you could build just about everything in the audio chain yourself. Technology is just a bit more complicated in this day and age, but nevertheless, I feel the possibility still exists to build what you cannot buy, at least in the field of loudspeakers. The following system concepts are those I adhered to when i decided to start this project . Now to begin.-- Restraints of size, cost , or time would not enter into the equation. The room should always comes first, and mine did. Determine the size room you want, and design it along sound acoustic principles. Electronics; Having owned solid state amps for 20 years, along with the power requirements of the system i had in mind , there was no other choice . Solid state ,discrete topology, pure Class A analogue design throughout the entire audio chain. Crossovers; electronic crossovers were employed throughout due to the flexibility needed in designing and building a loudspeaker system that might sail into uncharted waters. All 7 channels would be bass restricted below 60 hz, via the processor , with the subs handling everything below. Electronic equalization; multichannel parametrics operating below 300 hz would be employed on all 8 channels to augment the reduction or elimination of low frequency room resonances not fully addressed by the use of acoustic panels , traps, and diffusers. Loudspeaker design; 3 front towers, identical 9 ft - 4 inch line sources in a horizontal D'Appolito array, four side and rear surround towers, 7 ft- 4 inch line sources in left and right mirror image configuration. Drivers; 15 inch metal cone -high excursion drivers for the subs. Front channels; 7 inch kevlar cone dynamics for mid bass, planar dipole for the midrange, leaf tweeters for the dipole highs. Surround towers; 8 inch kevlar cone drivers for the mid bass, 5 1/2 kevlar cones for the midrange, Revelator domes for the highs. All dynamic drivers, except for the subs, sourced from the same manufacturer to maintain a coherent sonic sign, ature. Drivers and electronics identical to the four surround towers would be in place when processing becomes available for the rear center channel, an 8.1 system configuration. All the dynamic drivers within the system to be in their own separate, sealed enclosures. Baffles for all the dynamic drivers, except the subs , to be either 1 1/2 or 2 inch thick high gloss, black, cast polymer. [ The amount of time I logged from start to finish for construction of the loudspeakers only, amounted to a bit over 5400 man hours spread over 3 years of time. ] Interconnects; XLR type balanced cables used exclusively from the processor through to the 12 stereo amplifiers that are used to drive the 7.1 system; after all, balanced interconnects are what's used to record everything we listen to. Fine tuning of acoustic treatment and and installation of the decorative woodwork trim in the room would be performed after ETF measurements were taken when the complete system was in place , and up and running. At this point in time, both the trim and acoustic treatment are being completed. Upgrades; The 135 inch, widescreen formatted, Stewart electroscreen is to be replaced with a 155 inch, letterbox formatted, Microperf with side electromasking. The Sanyo PLV 70 will then be replaced with a Runco or Vidikron projector with the Cinewide and Autoscope lens features. The last upgrade will be more enjoyment and less work.
this 7.1 processor sends all signals to the amplification chain via balanced interconnects
Krell Krell DVD Standard
full featured , progressive scan dvd player
Krell sacd standard
plays 2 channel and multi channel sacd's
Krell FPB-200
two fpb 200 amps handle the leaf tweeter banks in the three front channels
Krell FPB-300
four fpb 300 amps handle the 4 surround towers. one fpb handles the rear center channel in the eventual 8.1 system
Krell FPB-600
Three fpb 600 amps handle the mid bass and mid range sections of the three front channels. two fpb 600 amps handle the two sub woofer channels
Krell KBX
four KBX 3 way mono electronic crossovers, and two kbx 2 way stereo electronic crossovers.handle frequency division within the system.
Krell Krell Link Controller
Three krell link controllers are used to synchronize remote control operations where multiple amplifiers are used in various situations(stereo, ht 5.1, 7.1 etc)
Krell KPE Reference
solid state phono head amp
Rives Audio PARC, & PARC PLUS
3 Parametric analog room correction equalizers tame room anomolies on all 8 channels in 3 chosen bands per channel
DOMINION VIRGINA POWER 26KVA LINE XFORMER
Audiophiles that have neighbors with noisy appliances have one of 2 choices; put up with it or use power conditioners that clean the power . Since we had a current demand that made power conditioners out of the question, 12 Krell fpb amps , plus source components, the best solution was to have our own line transformer installed by virginia power. When the quality of the power source was considered, this was the only choice.
American Power Conversion APC Smart UPS 2200VA USB
This conditioner/ battery back up is utilized to maintain the coherance of the operation of the sequenced krell link system with the hts 7.1 controller, the 12 fpb amps in the system, along with the various signal devices in the event of a power outage. We typically have at least 6 or more power outages in virginia durring the course of a year. two-6 outlet conditioners are used in the system protecting all signal and control components
APC APC Smart UPS 1100 UPS
one ups on the krell links- one ups on the PVL 75 projector
Personally designed and built Four- 7ft,4in surround towers,
These mirror image line sources each contain 6 scan speak 8 inch kevlar cone bass drivers operating from 60 to 500 hz thru a krell kbx xover @12 bd per octave. 6 scan speak 5 in kevlar cone mid drivers operating from 500 to 3500 hz @ 12 bd per octave. 6 scan speak revelator tweeters from 3500 hz and up @ 12 db per octave- passive xover between the mids and tweeters. a fpb 300 drives each tower thru a krell kbx xover. all drivers are mounted in their separate sealed enclosures. The mirror image baffles are hi gloss black cast polymer weighing 175 lbs and were manufactured by the author.
Personally designed and built, 3 identical front channels
3 way , 9 ft 4 inch line sources configured with a horizontal d'appolito array. Each tower contains the following drivers; 24 scan speak 7 inch kevlar cone mid bass drivers each in their own sealed baffle. 4 Bohlander Graebner rd-50 planar mid range drivers operating in a dipolar configuration, and 40 panasonic eas 10 th-400a leaf tweeters, 30 facing to the front and 10 facing rearward,wired out of phase for dipolar radiation
Personally designed and built, 3 way rear center channel
This horizontal d'appolito array speaker is identical to the 4 surround line arrays with the exception that it is in a horizontal configuration at the rear of the room 8 feet above the floor . It will be put into service when processing is available for an 8.1 surround configuration
Personally designed and built, Sub woofer towers
The two mirror image sub towers EACH contain 8- 15 in high excursion, metal cone drivers sourced from tc sounds. a krell fpb 600 is used to drive each tower with 4 woofers driven by each side of the amplifiers. the sub towers handle all the information below 60 hz for the 3 front and 4 surround towers. The 60 hz crossover frequency and 24 db slope is provided by the krell hts 7.1 processor.
Sota Millennia
vacum table with electronic speed control
triplainar 12 inch series vII
latest version of this legendary tonearm
Shelter 90X
Shelter's top of the line moving coil cartridge
Stewart Tech screen 130 microperf
The 135 inch , widescreen formatted , Stewart electroscreen is triggered by the krell hts 7.1 controller
Sanyo PLV 75 projector
2200 ansi lumen, widescreen , hi def lcd projector
Pioneer Elite CD CLV laser disc player
This model was the last, reference level, laser disc player manufactuted by pioneer befor the death knell of that format.
Direct TV HD DVR HR 10-250
DSS Hi Def receiver-DVR directly feeding the sanyo hi def projector via the digital -DVI input
Thompson DRD 486DH
Two - dss receivers facilitate simoutaneous viewing and recording of different channels
TIVO Tivo series 2
Two -80 gig units, one each on the 2 dss channels for time shift and convenience viewing.
Pioneer DVR 510 H
Two- 80 gig dvr recorders for archiving programs from the two tivo series 2 dvr's
Belden-neutrik Belden 8014 Quad star-2
this tripple shielded, mogami type, rubber coverd cable terminated with neutrik's best xlr connectors carry all the signals, in ballanced mode, from the processor right thru to the 11 krell amps.driving the system.
Luminous audio digital -optical interconnects
digital sources are connected to the hts 7.1 using the above commectors.
Luminous Audio Silver reference
This 8 ga silver litz wire is used to connect the speakers to their respective amplifiers. Since the amps are located directly at the speakers they drive, the lengths are generally less than two feet. terminations are all cardas premiun lugs. speaker binding posts are those used by krell on their fpb amps
carol cable and wire 10-3 neoprene coverd power cord
all the amps are fed with 10-3 copper supply cords terminated with wattgate iec plugs on one end and hubbel 30 amp, 4 prong, 220 volt twist-lock plugs on the supply end.
Did you ever get a ceiling finished in that man cave yet? I still want to come up a do a photo essay on your room. I hope to see you at the RAS meeting next week.
I realize that those that decide to make their mark by designing loudspeakers for the audiophile have a hard task before them. The permutations and combinations involving the number of drivers available to the designer along with the computer simulations of said drivers, crossovers and box designs will allow almost anybody to get into the speaker business. The catch is, do you have enough money to loose before your design catches on, if ever.
A FEW years ago my company did the prototyping, tooling and production molds for THIEL AUDIO for the cast polymer baffles for their CS 5 loudspeaker. The changes in cross section dimensions of the baffle design added cost to the final product, but was justified as the sound was the only criterion. Can you afford to do this if you don't have the resources?
Henry, I had only one person to satisfy , myself. I did my homework, spoke to the designers of all the drivers I chose, and asked the opinion of industry experts and got the go ahead.
I'm happy with my results. For the amount of money I spent building these speakers, I could've bought anything from the commercial audiophile market and saved money.
I fully aware of the percentages off the Retail price,---- dealer profit, shipping, advertising, R &D, cost of goods sold, administration, bad debts and returns---among others. I too run a business and it's always the bottom line that counts; it's what keeps you in business.
I'm happy with the results I'm listening to, but the real gratification is that I can say that I did it myself, with a little help from my friends.
Now that's what I call a real speaker system. Not like the highly overpriced crap that Wilson audio and others sell. Any speaker that exceeds $50 ,000 better be worthy of being taughted as state of the art. This is my idea of a reference speaker. The ribbon tweeter of the magnepan 3.6. The midrange of the quad 57 or apogee stage and the dipole bass of apogee scintilla. Anyone can slap basic dynamic drivers and design outrageously expensive boxes and finishes but the fact is it is a just fancy box with a small amount of drivers. Yes I heard all the outrageously expensive boxes and I am Very unimpressed. The top of the line soundlabs are very hard to beat especially for the price.
That Sonicraft web site is a great one and the collection is outstanding! It will be interesting to go through in depth. Thanks for that.
Loved your radio station story! =)
When I was into the Studers I subscribed to the Studer list and Fred was the guy who knew these things inside and out. Too bad he's no longer on the scene. It's going to get harder to find knowledgeable service for these old machines.
I keep trying to get the vinyl rig to sound like the tape deck and when the recording is good and the vinyl is perfect - it's getting close. The Clearaudio Goldfinger I'm using on my table offers great dynamics and speed. Still not tape but close... and the software costs less.
You'll find a trove of information from RTR guys on this site. It is populated with those that need information on the full range of RTR machines.
Should you need to narrow your range of information you can click on to Ampex@ recordist.com. Those that post to this site are professionals that worked in the great studios in the 60's on up. The first time you log on to the list you'll see postings about the things that recording engineers ask of one another.
Steve Puntolillo is the moderator of the Scully list. Scully not only built the recording lathe that we all know, but a line of great tape machines. Log on to www.Sonicraft.com and you will view the most fantastic collection of RTR machines I know of. Steve's business is archiving and restoring anything that has ever been put on tape. That means he has every tape machine that counts in his facility. Please log on to his web site if you have ANY interest in RTR machines.
I saw my first Scully machine when Sue and I drove to New Jersey. We took our F350 to pick up three showroom machines from a New York city dealer that just couldn't sell. He was 93 and always kept everything he bought, kinda like me.
He and his wife also owned an FM station in Hartford Conn. They had a fair sized collection of LPs. I asked him how many records he had that he wanted to sell. I asked him to measure the number of feet the records took up. 6 feet was the answer. Sue and I drove back to Richmond with 3,000 records, ten times more than he thought, a very light checkbook, and the truck on the overload springs----in a snowstorm.
The Studer list, that was moderated by Fred Thal, is not in service. Fred is a genius at keeping Studer machines up to their best. We RTR guys look to seeing him back on the web. I for one, with three Studers, will look forward to his knowledge.
The information I've posted is probably not best suited to most of those that follow Audiogon. RTR tape is a narrow genre that very few care about. It takes a taste of the sound that most of the great recordings were made from.
The Tape Project scratched the surface of RTR recordings. The prices of the great RTR machines are going up as are the prices of master tapes. Let the feeding frenzy begin!! For what's worth, when you get hooked on the sound of tape-good tape and not a copy, you'll never go back----------- unless you have a megabuck vinyl rig and then it might be a toss up as the software is cheap. Fritz the Kat
Yesterday I sent a link to Albert regarding a number of master tapes for sale from a gentleman on the Reeltoreel site. If you're a tape addict you need to log on and join the site. The tapes range from 1/4 inch, 1/2 inch and 1 inch two track at both 15 and 15 ips.
This gentleman has credability in the RTR circle. His offerings are more than interesting and the prices are fair. The tapes would be shipped from Greece.
I haven't asked what the generation of the tapes are or the machines they were made on; eq, dolby or not.
As Albert said," There is a feeding frenzy from those that have master tapes."
I for one , will settle down, and look to taking my Ampex 440 C 1/2 inch two track along with Peluso 2247 mikes to record the Williamsburg Symphony and any other musical group I can.
$810 for "Kind of Blue"... hmmm. I wonder if this person knows that with tape a sealed copy doesn't necessarily mean a perfect copy. It could have turned to dust in the box or have come close to a magnet at some time which would make $810 a fairly significant gamble I think.
Perhaps he needed it to fill a hole in his collection.
It takes attention, and quick replies for a post on "All out assault" to go up. If you don't pay attention every day you might not even post. I've had this post for a few years and never seem to have the time to check Audiogon to see when someone asks a question. It usually takes me a few days to respond so the interest is lost from those that asked a question or paid a compliment.
What I do check on, three or four times a day is the Ampex ATR and Ampex sites on Ebay. RTR machines have hit a high mark on Ebay, thanks to TTP and I'm glad somebody flicked the switch. You might get the idea that I'm a tape junkie.
Unfortunately, folks have no fund, so the best machines have vanished from the net. I understand as I have many machines that will go up on sale when the economy changes??????
I'm not a dealer but an out of control audiophile, so says SUE. For a year or two I bought most of the RTR Icon machines, in spite of the advice given to me by someone whose advice was proven to be true.
A tape machine will deliver great sound as long as it has the ability to exceed the quality of the tape it's playing. I believe that says it all. Play a master tape or safety, on a machine that is at least as good as that which it was recorded on and you'll be in heaven. Knowing if the tape was recorded with NAB or CCIR EQ, with or without Dolby, will all make a difference. In the end it's all about how it sounds when you turn out the lights and enjoy what you're hearing. By the way, It is cheaper to own a machine that will play, as opposed to record, so big bucks are only needed when you hit the record button.
FWIW, I hope the buyer that paid $810 for "Kind Of Blue" on a 2 track 7 1/2 ips sealed tape got his money's worth. For me, I'll open my Blue Note re issue I paid much less for, and be happy. I don't care much for Jazz, but maybe that will change.
I plan to bring up this system at the next board meeting. The ATR and the Soundlabs are constantly debated due to their appearance and are generally considered an unacceptable domestic breed. I agree of course however, sonics trump visual beauty every time and I do have a dedicated room which is referred to as the "man" room.
Someone needs to give a home to all those stray ATRs out there and I'm glad Ken is up to the challenge. Just feeding them and giving them their proper shots requires commitment.
If Ken has multiple ATRs along with the forest of speakers shown here there must be love. Good for him! I strongly endorse this sort of behavior. =)
Rick, don't encourage Fritz the Cat, he's already over the top.
Ken brings home another Ampex ATR every chance he gets, with your encouragement he may start bringing home more drivers and then his wife will throw him out.
Come to think of it, that might not be bad, then I could get Ken's 1955 Chevy.
My recent evolution mimics yours in audiophilia...happy with CD, then return to analogue! :-) Now, my desire is to authenticate the sensory experience by re-creating it vis-a-vis analogue tape. This, quite justifiably, reveals another wonderful aspect of our avocation - that of recording devotee and all of the wonder it entails.
Sue sounds like a terrific partner, Ken. Perhaps, some day, I can beguile you with such reminiscences...
How many times have those of us in audio experienced an epiphany the changed their outlook on sound. It happens when we hear a speaker or amp the makes everything sound better but that change always reoccurs. Every once and a while something happens that makes a change that is an order of magnitude better than what we've experienced.
Before I first heard a Tape project tape at the CES, I was happy to play my LPs and CDs and figured I was in hog heaven. How that experience changed my thoughts on music.
I haven't played a CD for a few years and I have some good stuff. Now it's tape first and LPs second.
I bought an Ampex 351-2, some Neumann and Altec condenser mikes, a pair of mixers and other gear around 1958. It was great recording live music but it all was sold when I needed a house for my wife and kids. Sold to a good friend, I bought it all back, unused, after I heard TTP issues. After that it was ass over end for RTR machines. Three years ago they were still cheap and not many guys wanted them. Finding a pristine pair of Technics 1500 machines for $600 each won't happen again. Over the last two years the prices on GOOD RTR machines has been going up, Thank You, The Tape Project!
I saw that TTP used ATR 100 machines and ordered one from Mike Spits at ATR services, Mike supplied ALL the machines to TTP. Just call him "Mr ATR."
It took a while to take delivery on the first machine. Mike is a great guy and I kept in touch with him regarding the RTR purchases I was making. All the time he told me to stop buying all those machines as I'd never use them after I heard an ATR. Well, he was right but it's fun to have a collection of machines that recorded the greatest recordings ever made.
Since this is a forum for crazy and obsessed audio guys to rationalize their choices, I'll take advantage of it. Other than the ATRs, my favorite machine is a 440 C 1/2 inch two channel machine with new flux Magnetics MS series heads. I paid way too much for a playback only deck that was as new, a pair of clean 440c pres and a set of Ampex portable cases that were as new. They came from a friend on the Ampex list that lived at the other end of the country; I'm in Va. Freight was half the cost of the cases, but worth it. The machine is a back breaker but hand trucks make it easier to handle. Mike Spitz put it all together, what can I say.
Recording good live music on ATR 1/2 inch master tape, at 15 ips on this machine, delivers sound you'll never get any other way. The quality of the musicians will always determine how many times you may choose to listen to the tape. Having said that, would you ever admit that something you took part in was a total flop?
The memories of you and your better half hunched over a pair of spinning reels, monitoring the music off headphones and just waiting to get home around midnight to play it back is priceless.
I've had this posting up for a few years and it's in need of updating as the system has changed. There seems to be an increased interest in RTR machines, where the tapes can be sources, where the members can offer their thought on tape and machines. I have a trove of machines that might pique interest as a separate posting on "All out Assaults." Having good gear is useless unless you have an opportunity to use. Sue and I have fun on live recordings and it's not easy to find venues, but they are out there. Digital recording options abound and don't break your back.
Sue and I are about having fun recording "The Absolute Sound" and have much to learn. The older you get the more you're grateful you're not making your living in the music industry, just enjoying it.
This week I've boxed up all the LPs, CDs and DVDs I have in the music room. All the surround amps and crossovers will also go back in the boxes. The tape machines along with all the tapes will get moved out. Only the three front channel speakers and amps that drive them will stay as they are too big to move out of the room so they'll be covered. The floor will be covered with masonite so I won't have to worry about damage there.
The room addition I put on for media storage will beused for the tools and machines I'll need to finish the music room. All the sound treatment panels are safely stored on a pallet rack, they've been there for three years. All the materials for the woodwork and trim have been piled in my shop for longer than that. Since the ceiling will be the last thing to be installed I have much to do before that.
I'm someone who has and works toward attaining long term goals.So far the long term goal has been about 9 year and I need to attain it before I either go deaf or kick the bucket.
Presto was a force in the disc recording gear from the 30s to the 50s. Their machines were built exceedingly well and were heavily used in the broadcast industry. They built machines for Muzak and others and decided to compete with the Ampex 351 machines but seemed to be a year or so behind in development. They had a few novel features such as tape guides that also doubled as tape lifters and never seemed to work great. Their editing feature was a first and was neat but they never captured much of a market.
The only Presto machine I ever saw was up for sale just before I bought my 351-2 in the late 50s. It was owned by a local high end audio store/ recording studio called' HI FI FO FUM" at 26th and Wisconsinum. They occupied a fancy car dealer, defunct, showroom in the heart of downtown Milwaukee. All the gear was displayed in great home type surroundings in the glass clad showroom. Their prices were high and lasted only a year or so.
I was just a sophomore in high school and got the full sales pitch but they never thought I was serious about the machine. They wanted to sell the machine along with their failing recording studio and nobody bought it. They went belly up just after I ordered my 351-2.
I've always wanted to see a presto 825 again but never did. Presto was sold soon after and the good RTR engineers went to Scully to show them how to build RTR machines.
There is quite a history behind the manufacture of RTR machines and those that designed them. After digital sounded the death knell of analog tape it seemed it was gone forever. The same bell tolled for vinyl but quality always rears it head and refuses to be burried.
I've spent all day boxing up my LPs, magazines and data sheets.
A year ago I started an addition on my music room to house all the vinyl, tapes, dvds, cds RTR machines, recording cleaning gear etc. I have three doorways connecting the two rooms and thought I could keep all the sawdust, rock dust, sheetrock dust etc.. The three doorways connecting the two rooms were cut through 12 inch solid concrete walls. This dust was harder to eliminate than taxes.
Tomorrow will be a rest day and I'll post info regarding all the fun I've had acquiring and using RTR machines. Thanks in advance.
Funny you should mention the Presto 825. I have one (actually, one trolley, three transports, and four channels of electronics w/PSU's,) but most people have no idea what it is, even some older recording engineers.
