04-10-14: Drajreynolds
.....it might be best if I simply say that the Archon combines the best attributes of the Lyra Olympos and Takeda Miyabi Alnico in one relatively affordable modern cartridge...

That is a remarkable message. Both named cartridges are still the sonic benchmark, independently from price but are not longer available. In the last year I never met a cartridge (from the modern ones) which was even able to scratch their overall performance.
The Miyabi was a top performer with any given Tonearm (very hard to find today), the Olympos needs a serious Arm design to show the full performance (awful with any carbon Arm, super with Fr-64s or some older Japanese Warhorses).
Archos seems to be a performer which created - to those who listened to it - a positive reaction. Seems, there is worse out there :-)

syntax April 11, 2014 05:22

Dear Syntax,

I received the Archon cartridge today and it is currently running in my Brinkmann 12.1 tonearm, having displaced my Lyra Dorian Mono for now. The Axiom is already occupied by the Takeda Miyabi Alnico with custom stylus and I dare not upset the balance of the force at this time (Star Wars joke for those not paying attention).

Having spent quite some time listening to the Lyra Olympos in the Brinkmann 12.1 tonearm before the Axiom arrived, I believe that I am in a good position to comment on how the Archon, fresh out of the box, sounds in comparison. Rather than throw around lots of hand picked adjectives from the audiophile's playbook it might be best if I simply say that the Archon combines the best attributes of the Lyra Olympos and Takeda Miyabi Alnico in one relatively affordable modern cartridge. That it can show its quality with a range of modern tonearms and phono preamplifiers (thanks to its clever design and healthy output) is a good thing for the discriminated audiophile out there who is normally born to suffer ;-)

You summarised it rather well with "finesse and gestalt behind every note".

drajreynolds April 10, 2014 05:11

Greetings All,

BTW, is this the same Dertonarm, Acoustical Systems, Juki, and Daniel Brakemeir that stills owes several thousands of refund dollars...are these the same ones that still owe these monies?

There was also this one case, where a Bavarian told me that he paid Dertonarm/Daniel around €25,000 upfront about four years ago to bring a copy of the Apolyt turntable up to date. I remember his wife being in disbelief she found out about that one. From what I have read on the forums, it appears that he may still be waiting on his updates, oh well...

Cheers!

unoear April 09, 2014 18:47

Nice system Syntax. Any chance for better picture of the bass units?

What's next on the HiFi roadmap?

lapierre April 09, 2014 14:36

Hi Peter. Acoustical Systems products are distributed by Vana Ltd in the United States of America.

The internal impedance and output of the Archon are comparable to those of the ZYX cartridges. The output is also comparable with Lyra models such as the Titan and it's modern derivatives. This enables a wider range of phono preamps to be used without totally destroying the sonic performance. As per all moving coil cartridges, the very best performance will be in conjunction with a matched step up transformer.

drajreynolds April 08, 2014 18:29

Thanks Syntax. That is a pretty high output with a high impedance. I think mine is .5 and 1 ohm, which is very low. Is the cartridge available directly from Dertonarm?

His company seems to be developing some very interesting analog products. Is there any interest in a low impedance phono cable? I've been reading about the benefits of that for cartridge loading in Jonathan Carr's posts on WBF.

peterayer April 08, 2014 16:18

Hi Peterayer,
the Datas:
Output: 0.5 mV
Silver coils
Ultra-rigid special dampened titanium
VTF: 1.60 -2.00
Impedance: 8 Ω
Compliance: 17 -19 mm/N
Weight: 11.5 gr
Price USD 2800,--

syntax April 08, 2014 12:04

Syntax, that is quite interesting. How much does this new cartridge cost in US$ and how does it compare to your various Lyras? Do you know the weight and other stats or are they listed on the website? Thanks.

peterayer April 07, 2014 16:00

Hi,

my Phono reproduction is tuned for cartridges below 0.20mV and to be fair, it is very difficult to compare such carts with such 0.5mV units. But of course, I have matching Phono gain for that, too.
Normally I am not so mad for those higher output MC's, they don't have the finesse from the low output units. But there are also differences among those, some have an interesting internal amplification which make them sound more powerful than their low output rating, the Miyabi was such a remarkable unit (0.25mV) and some need even with 0.30mV Phono Gain in the area of 68dB ++

The Archon is in multiple ways interesting
- it is useable without any problem with a gain from 56DB to max. 64dB
- it is strong in the high frequency reproduction without missing subtle, different tonal differences, all details have the air we are looking for
- low frequency response really goes down to the area which start to vibrate the windows in the listening room (not many are able to do that, regardless of price)
- with classical records you can hear the "ambience" of the room, how the music flows and floods to the side walls, in a way a believable picture from the session and what I really like, it is a done right cart from the brain and musical understanding from the designer without the usual price tag of $8k - 20K which is so modern today to show the "seriousness" of a product. It is simply a good one from the musical result and a lot of discriminated audiophiles with a regular budges can get now something which isn't following the usual marketing idea (we have one for 1.5k but our next for 3k is better and of course the one above for 7k is really special and the 14k cart from us is the holy grail...)
It needs no long break in time (that is my opinion at the moment), maybe after 4 hours you really know the sonic direction and after a day the soundstage details are more coherent and you can enjoy your records (not the usual "at the beginning it was slow and dull but after 80h the sonic curtain was removed. and now I can hear the 10k I spent for...")

To repeat myself, I prefer units done right, some are expensive but not all the time. Some want to pay big bucks and some can't do it but they try to find something serious. I think, that is such a product.

When you do the first listen you will hear the powerful reproduction BUT (and that is important), the details have all a unique kind of amplification. Most high output carts amplify everything more or less equal, ignoring the subtle tonal details.
I am interesting in your opinion when you will get it.

syntax April 07, 2014 04:26

Nice cartridge, Syntax.

How does it perform in your system which can actually show the differences? Comparisons with Lyra Olympos and Titan as well as FR-7fz would be very interesting.

I should have my Archon soon.

drajreynolds April 06, 2014 06:42

Acoustical Systems Axiom Moving Coil Cartridge

syntax April 05, 2014 13:17

Some guys here are questioning the superiority of the FR64s, especially the ( mis) match with newer cartridges due to the FR high mass. But I can not see any significantly more interesting arms..

I am not among those. When I got it, I had all the cartridges listed in my System and probably a few more. And it was always the same result: each one delivered more information with the 64s than in any other Arm. It is THE Arm for lush Koetsus or Lyras which are made for energy transfer via their body into the Arm.

I can't say anything about the Vector Arm, but the Graham Phantom supreme is among the very best from the modern Arms. I had contact to a Vector owner some time ago, he compared it with Phantom supreme and sold Vector...You can change the Arm tubes when you would like to use a Mono cart and the perfect cartridge adjustment is no big deal for anyone based on the Graham alignment.

I agree with your point of view, other Arms are uninteresting, I listened to a lot of them in the last 10 years and most are *censored* :-). Times changed, you can spend a lot of money in Audiophilia but there is no proof to get a superior product. Marketing and proud ownership replaced that...It is the way it is...The only exception is one from Acoustical Systems, the Axiom, it has very clever and well done solutions and is sonically way superior to all I know (with exception of the FR Arms). It can be mounted like a 9" Arm and I think, it has a very simple onboard drill. But it is very expensive. When you can afford it, think seriously about it. That is a no nonsense design and there is no cheating. It is very expensive in the production based on very high material/ tooling costs. But the sonic result is stunning. Here is real brain behind it.

syntax April 04, 2014 09:58

Syntax.
When are we goofing to see pics of the new turntable!?!?

hi, you mean The Apolyt I think...
Well I hope, soon now. When I bought it I wanted to raise it to a more modern Standard without knowing how much problems needed to be solved ...
Air Bearing for the 50 kg Platter
That was a outstanding expensive investment because I wanted a very small dentist lab compressor and the bearing was only possible from a very advanced high Tech company in Germany from the specs (when you ask for the price...you know this sentence...)
Additional Inertia unit (comparable to the Seiki HS-80 Design)
New drills, another motor and a complete new motor management was necessary but I should be in the final move now...

Audiophiles are born to suffer .....

syntax April 02, 2014 13:18

Syntax.
When are we goofing to see pics of the new turntable!?!?

jeff1225 March 30, 2014 15:49

Thats a well argued answer Syntax! Yes, or I started on THAT thread. I am planning to go for a spanking new Debut Dual, with the Superarm 9 on the right hand, and probably theF64s on the left. And no I am not a filty rich guy, just stretching a bit to get my dream table once and for all.
I have mailed Basis to check if there is enough room for the arm lower part.
Even my dealer for Basis and Ikeda did not think about the maybe lack of ground clearance between the top and bottom plint. Some guys here are questioning the superiority of the FR64s, especially the ( mis) match with newer cartridges due to the FR high mass. But I can not see any significantly more interresting arms..

geddyen March 30, 2014 10:02

Hi Geddyen,

you did read THAT thread...my respect. It was interesting I think. When I first used the 64s it was my personal wake up call to rethink analog Manufacturer "knowledge"...
My Basis Debut had replaceable Armboards so it was no problem to mount the 63s. I guess you own the newer model without the Armboard, with the drill onto the top plate? Is there enough room below the top board for the lower part of the 64s? May I ask what is your Arm now? Vector?
I agree, not an easy decision :-)
231,5mm is the best...but it depends a bit on the records you want to listen to. When you want to go for old Londons, Deccas, Mercuries, that's the way to go. Superior tracking, no noise, no compression, deep soundstage and a believable "Picture" from the Session with better tonal colors of the instruments.
The B60 is the icing on the cake, it makes sense with those records because the all have different cuts (---> VTA) but of course you can use the Arm without it.... :-)

Here is a Pic from it (without B60 but with a spacer to level the Arm to the Platter)

Basis Debut FR-64s

syntax March 27, 2014 15:34

Hi Syntax!

Can you share Your opinion please.
If I was mounting a FR64S on a Basis Debut, what would you recommend as a mounting distance? I see there is a looong discussion on Agon between the standard 230 mm, and the Dertonarm "version" 231,5 mm..
And is the VTA adjuster really necessary? Would be a shame to drill a to big hole in that beautiful black acryl..
Thanks!

geddyen March 25, 2014 14:59

I owned a Kuzma Airline Arm first and was looking for a chance to mount it onto the Basis...but I run into problems to get a proper Armboard for it (Conti wanted to sell me an Armboard with his Vector Arm and I refused to do that) and to make that story short, I bought that Kuzma Reference table for it.
Honestly, that Combination was ok but no competition for the Basis. It is better than a lot out there but the Soundstage (depth and width) + the weight behind every note, the holographic "Picture" was way better with the Basis. It has simply more the "real thing sound".
I tried a lot to improve it, but at the end of day it was useless.
But that is - or was - a decision based on MY Standard for High End reproduction.

syntax February 25, 2014 11:05

Thanks again Syntax!

That is some nice details to know about. But I see that you had the Kuzma Reference after (a shootout?) the Debut. Does that mean the Kuzma "bettered" the Basis?

Best musical regards!

geddyen February 23, 2014 20:25

Syntax, The SME V-12 is a modern arm, just three years old, and it has dynamic balance. I once spent some time comparing the dynamic to static balance on my old SME V arm and I preferred the dynamic condition.

I think you are right that the other modern arms that people discuss, the Schroder LT, the Durand Talea and Telos, the latest Grahams don't have dynamic balance. It makes a difference.

peterayer February 21, 2014 22:27

Hello Geddyen,

I would choose the Basis Debut with vacuum for several reasons.
there are a lot of - more or less - warped records out there and this up and down from the cantilever changes always the VTF. The better your System is, the more you can hear it. Specially with low VTF cartridges (1.60-1.75gr) and Arms which are not dynamically balanced (none of the modern ones is).
Next is, compared to other vacuum tables, the Basis does not degrade the sound, the platter is sonically neutral and Basis works with very low pressure. All other tables I did listen to have a sonic coloration (depending on their platter) or have a interaction with the bearing (sonic fingerprint, coloration).
When you listen to demanding records ( classical from the late 50's to mid of 60's) you can hear the difference easily. In a way it is a tool for the vinyl collector and music lover who demands a 1:1 reproduction.
But today, I would insist on 2 changes:
I would insist on the "old" black platter with the inserts inside
and
I would demand a drill for a Graham Phantom supreme Standard length.
Some years ago Basis offered the black platter and had changeable arm boards, I think, he stopped it to lower production costs :-).
This combination was superior from frequency reproduction range to anything else on market and I think, it did not change.

syntax February 21, 2014 11:29

Allrighty Syntax!

Actually it is good to know that you have not heard the Accuphase, (and than ditched it), because I have now ordered it, and will have it first week in March. I agree totally that Accu-products seems to be top notch quality builds. When looking under the hood they also look like we are paying not only for a nice looking chassi.
I will try to give an impression of the C-27 when I have some hours on it.

One more question please. If you could choose, would you go for the Basis Debut non vacum or with vacum? Why?

Best musical regards!

geddyen February 19, 2014 13:38

Hello Geddyen,

thank you. Unfortunately I never had the chance to listen to the C-27 Phono. It is very rare. I read the specs when introduced and thought, that is an interesting unit. Accuphase has an extremely good quality control but in the end, a personal test is still recommended. But when you can listen to it, please share your impressions.

syntax February 19, 2014 06:30

Hello Syntax!

Congratulations with your extremely well put together system! I can imagine this sounds spooky good!

And tanks for sharing your deeper listening experiences, based on first hand comparison and solid arguments. From this thread I have actually learned something!
Can I ask if you have any experience or thoughts about Accuphase sound and products? I am seriously considering their C-27 Riia/ phono amplifier, their dac DC-901 and maybe their class a power amps..

Geddy

geddyen February 17, 2014 20:04

Hello Syntax!

Congratulations with your extremely well put together system! I can imagine this sounds spooky good!

And tanks for sharing your deeper listening experiences, based on first hand comparison and solid arguments. From this thread I have actually learned something!
Can I ask if you have any experience or thoughts about Accuphase sound and products? I am seriously considering their C-27 Riia/ phono amplifier, their dac DC-901 and maybe their class a power amps..

Geddy

geddyen February 17, 2014 18:28