Hi Henry,

Thanks for the compliments and the suggestions around TT set up. The tonearm base works wonderfully well and brings a very high level of "being thereness to things". I've still got your diagrams and will look into a custom made tower as soon as it is feasible.

Things are so economically difficult at present that I doubt I'll be able to make any major changes for a while but I really do love the way things perform at present.

Hope your music continues to bring you joy

dgob June 08, 2011 13:10

Looking really good Dgob.
That super heavy tonearm base should really do the trick.
How does it sound?
Love all your arms and the wall-mounted shelf simply can't be beaten.
You must be pleased with your current set-up?
Cheers
Henry

halcro June 08, 2011 07:32

Just one quick point, with the Symposium svelte's beneath the velodynes, I could replace my earlier 30kg weight from the top of them to a mere 14kg weight. This allows for increased aesthetic options and WAF.

dgob April 09, 2011 01:07

Hi All,

The problem with the imaging was no problem but the result of improvements in resolution through the nude TT and isolated tonearm approach. A case in point was given in some minor changes that I have made. I'll list these changes in case any prove applicable and/or useful to any other readers.

1. I removed the four rubber screw-on feet from my both velodyne subs and the cones on which they sat above the two stacked sets of Mana acoustic speaker stands and I replaced these with Symposium Svelte platforms: leaving the subs sat flush on the Symposiums, which in turn sat flush on the Mana stands. Symposium recommend using their platforms in place of spikes beneath speakers. I can only say that this is worthwhile, as long as you have some method (such as I find with the mana stands) of leveling the ground on which they sit. Now, the tightness of the bass notes is only surpassed by the tonal variations that appear. A major upgrade for the Velodynes and my system. In moving the Svelte platforms I now needed to accommodate my other equipment and so experimented with interesting results.

2. I therefore placed my recently redundant Symmposium Ultra platform (as used to sit beneath my TT) beneath my Levinson amp and on the Mana amp stand and placed its former Symposium Super Plus platform beneath my Essential 3160 preamp. Both amps being coupled to the Symposiums with Symposium precision couplers. I then used the same couplers to couple my CDP to its Symposium Ultra platform, which left the Symposium rollerblocks free to sit under my Essential 3160 power supply. With these all sat on my Symposium Isis rack, the performance improved dramatically.

3. My TT sits on one birch wall shelf and its power supply sits on the birch shelf below it. I noticed that when I moved the Svelte platform to use it beneath the Velodyne's there was a major change in the performance of my TT. I therefore explored a variety of options and ended up using one of the small Audio Technica pneumatic footers (as seen in my above photo's) at the front of the Technics' power supply and a Symposium Ultra Fat Pad at its rear. The performance improved dramatically with increased bottom end and midrange detail and even firmer imaging. A case in point for the impmrovements here would be the, detail variety and full range of colour that this set up brings to the performance (Solti/CSO, Decca) of Mahler's 8th Symphony.

As I said, I put a lot of this down to the new resolution potential of my set up and hope others find similar improvements in their choices.

dgob April 09, 2011 01:04

Following my above appraisal of the detached and nude set up, I should just add that I feel slightly sensitive to (or curious about) the psychoacoustic elements in hifi. For example, I am not certain if the issues of soundstage and of imaging are genuine/completley authentic.

It seems that in a live performance one is very rarely (if ever) as aware of acoustic space between musicians or their three dimensionality. My suspicion is that hifi attempts to account for the visual stimuli that is provided in a live performance by the over emphasis of these audible features. Small ensemble acoustic or vocal performances might be the occasional exceptions to this.

Just food for thought and a reflection on the hifi norms to which I refered in my above appraisal.

Thoughts welcomed

dgob March 22, 2011 00:20

System edited: I have added photographs of the new isolated arm tower arrangement, under the heading 'Arm Tower AS'. My findings for this arrangement have been post elsewhere on Audiogon but I take the liberty of repeating these findings here: "Hi All, "So I've suggested my being impressed by the changes that I have achieved in moving to a naked Technics SP10 Mk2 with a decoupled, stand-alone arm tower. Yet I started to wonder what precisely constituted this "better". Well, in a ham-fisted attempt to clarify my thinking here I thought I'd share some impressions of this experience. "As I noted, with the new analogue arrangement, the first and most obvious change is that the sound stage is far larger. This means that the spacing between musicians is not only wider but it is markedly deeper too. This is accompanied by the sensation of actual acoustic space between musicians and presents a perspective that is far closer to that provided in an actual live performance. "The next most obvious feature relates to the above one but is that you acquire more control over complex performance material. Large orchestra crescendos do not become confused and the instrumentation remains identifiable throughout. This goes hand in hand with the much increased sense of ease that performances attain. "The next most obvious change is the increased level of 'detail' that you get. For me, detail is the critical factor of quality in high fidelity replay. This is not only being able to hear additional instruments but also to be able to distinguish timbre and every audible feature that makes a live performance. To neglect the certrality of detail as the key criteria seems to me to depend on a violent limitation on what one means by 'detail'. For me, the term means 'more information' and that is surely (be it in increasing the bite of string instuments or; the rasp of brass or; the percussive impact of drums, strings or keyboards or; the quieter spaces that give good staging) at the heart of everything that the audiophile is seeking. Well, you get more detail when playing your music through this new analogue arrangement. "This fact leads to a need to 'equalise your hearing'. This seems critical to me because (I believe) we can become familiar with hifi norms that have little to do with actual live performances. One such norm is the spotlighting of a frequency range and or instrument at the cost of the full range of the actual performance. It's difficult to explain what I mean here other than to say that proportion is generally lost with this form of hifi spotlighting (there are of course other forms of equipment that can also achieve these negative results - including certain cables and forms of amplification). "In the new arrangement, the lead instrument/frequency is brought back into perspective with the full ensemble. This does not mean that there is a loss of detail in such a lead instrument or frequency range. What it seems to mean is that the supporting detail is brought out into what becomes a more detailed performance in which everything just seems right (key instrument or frequencies included). Listener fatigue also goes on holiday as this new detail makes its entrance. As I say, I found that it made me reassess the various cues that I had become accustomed to basing my assessments of components on. And that put live performances (or intimations of them in line with my own experiences of live performances at a variety of venues) back to the fore of my appreciations. "I name four recordings that underpin, and seem to fully testify to, my impressions. These recordings are: 1. Bach, Goldberg Variations, Glenn Gould (1982) CBS 2. Bach, Donatas & Partitas, Nathan Milstein (1975) Deutsche Grammophon 2721 087 3.Prokofiev, Romeo and Juliet complet ballet, Algis Zuaitis, Bolshoi Theatre Orchestra, EMI CPD 41 4452 3 and 4.John Surman, Westering Home, (1972) Island Records, HELP 10. "I wont go into detail about the factors that come through on these phenomenal works: they are worth listening to regardless of the quality of ones equipment. Suffice it to say that all four of these recordings make my above impressions certainties for me. Yet all recordings take a similar route to improvement (obviously in proportion to the quality of their own performance and recording) with my nude turntable and detached stand alone arm tower. "I strongly recommend such experimentation for those who might seek to explore my experience and appreciation of what constitutes its being better... "Just by way of clarification around my listening, there are notes on the recordings that I have suggested above. As I say, they are worth having in their own right: Review of Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet complete ballet, Zuraitis: www.gramophone(two+discs,+nas%3A+142+minutes%3A+ADD).+From+EMI+SLS1650933+(883) Reviews of Bach’s Goldberg Variations, Gould: www.npr www.sputnikmusic www.amazon Reviews of Bach’s Sonatas and Partitas, Milstein: www.amazon www.epinions Reviews of Surman’s Westering Home: www.allmusic rateyourmusic.com These are all available with a little effort for anyone who does not own them. Maybe the Prokofiev is a little more difficult to obtain but well worth the perseverance I feel. Anywhos, it would please me if any of this proves helpful. Happy listening".

dgob March 19, 2011 03:17

System edited: I am now convinced that a nude Technics SP10 Mk2 and decoupled arm tower bring unexpected but spectacular results. The closest to a live performance I have yet obtained. I would really recommend similar experimentation for those in a similar position. The results will truly speak for themselves.

dgob February 15, 2011 19:21

System edited: Tring the nude Technics with an independent (customized) Acoustic Signature Mambo armboard column stood on 8mm spikes. These are sat on a sheet of industrial viscoelastic material and it is all placed on the Symposium Ultra platform - to avoid resonance in the arm-columnn. I will report back when I am certain how this plays out.

dgob February 05, 2011 23:49

Just to confirm that the choice of material for use in the armboard is very important for the sound you achieve with the Technics on pneumatic footers. At present, the solid ash armboard is the best performing but my experimentation continues.

Also, the pneumatic footers should NOT (as I had previously done) be used on top of a viscoelastic platform such as the Symposium Ultra. The footers perform best on a normal shelf - to my experience.

dgob January 15, 2011 01:57

Hi All,

Just to report back on a strange and illuminating event. All of my family went away visiting the in-laws last weekend and there were absolutely no electronic devices on except my system. The sound of the system under these conditions seemed even more revealing. I therefore placed the AT616 footers back under the SP10 to test it under these conditions and. low and behold, PHENOMENAL!!! The top end had real detail and extention and the rest of the system was even more resolving (the midrange fullness).

On Sunday they all returned and I had to replace the footers with my metal couplers. Lesson: every details seems to count in the pursuit of excellence and achieving it remains a fine art?

dgob November 29, 2010 09:58

What I have confirmed in my recent experimentations with the set up of my turntable is the old adage that resonance management and isolation is a difficult art. To manage vibration in your system needs care and patience. The inescapable determinant of your individual hearing sensitivities and tastes not withstanding! That noted:

I have had to move out the pneumatic footers from under my second turntable. It seems to me that they do real damage to high frequency accuracy. If you're using independent super-tweeters (as I used to) the shortcomings of the footers might be compensated for by elevating the level of the tweeters' output. However, I did not find the integration of add on tweeters a wholly satisfactory experience and so am very sensitive to the effects of my 'Audio Technica AT616 Precision Pneumatic Footers'.

The naked Technics SP10 Mk2 is indeed excellent when played nude. However, I would recommend some form of visco-elastic platform (I use the Symposium Ultra platform) and metal couplers (I use the Syposium Precision couplers) topped by upturned cones (I tried my Michell Tenderfeet and my RDC cones but settled for a stainless steel set with height adjustable copper tips). This method does not simply try to isolate the turntable from ground/platform influence at the potential expense of living with air-borne vibration. It offers firm grounding while managing vibration by draining any electro mechanical vibration within the turntable/component and isolating it from its underlying platform/ground (a birch wall-shelf in my case). Yet it does so without introducing new susceptibilities to air-borne vibration. Definitely worth a try!

I have not heard the SP10 in a suitable plinth however and so I will continue with my design project and provide a performance comparision in the days/months ahead. In the meantime, I can more than live with the naked SP10 when set up as described.

dgob October 25, 2010 21:48

System edited: Toying with different armboards for the naked Technics. Currently trying an l-shaped MDF board that mounts two tonearms (AC3300 and DP6). I've also tried a single ash board. Still early days but it certainly is different to what I heard through the Acoustic Signature Mambo.

dgob September 30, 2010 20:40

Hi All,

I've still not found time to test the ADC Point Four cartridge but have come across a bit more info. There's a very positive review of it in The Gramaphone. You can find it at: http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/November%201964/107/805510/TECHNICAL+REPORTS#header-logo.

Of course, I'll comment on it when I find time to fully audition it and if I find it to be worthy of such. I'll also give a full review of the Glanz G5 and G7 cartridges after I have them checked over and matched up in an optimum setting.

Till then... :~)

dgob August 30, 2010 10:54

Latest Update,

Still playing with set-up for the Technics 100 Mk4. This is a fascinating and educational challenge as slight changes in components can reap widely differing results.

I've now removed the pneumatic footers in trading air for the immediacy that better grounding provides. However, I have settled on the SAEC SS300 metal mat, which aids tonal balance and stability. The latest update that has aided the SAEC and my entire set-up here is the adoption of the JA Michell record clamp.

The clamp is reletively a cheap product but is made from a vinyl/metal alloy that seems far more sympathetic to the natural resonances of records. HOWEVER, the clamp is majorly let down by the felt O-ring that comes with it. I have experimented with a variety of replacements and have come up with a three layered composit of two types of felt and a top layer of industrial viscoelastic sheeting. These three layers are cut slightlty smaller that a pound coin (and than the original Michell felt ring)in diameter with a centre hole the pricise size of the TT spindle. The three layers are fixed with an adhesive and when placed on the SAEC beneath the record, it (the new I-ring) elevates the Michell clamp above any other I have tried.

The SAEC/Michell/bespoke o-ring combination produces more detail, better extention and dynamics than anything I have tried before and also provides the air and staging that I found in using pneumatic footers: yet, without the airborne problems that are innate to such pneumatic technology.

The alternatives that I can say this comination outperforms includes the SAEC/Basis Reflex clamp/rubber O-ring; the Boston Audio Mat1/Acoustic Signature Grip; the SAEC/Music Fidelity record clamp; the Jeweltone G601J Crystal Stabilizer and the Audio Technica AT666 pneumatic turntable mat etc.

Of course given the nature of this obsession, I continue to wonder if there is still more to be found through further experimentation! Nevertheless, I 'can' finally live with this as it stands.

dgob August 19, 2010 05:42

Raul,

You were to the front of my mind in declaring this revelation (and in noting my willingness to learn). It does truly make a large difference across the full frequency range. I've been listening to Mahler's symphonies and Beethoven's piano sonatas and they have never sounded so good.

On the coming back to former set ups, I believe that the overall small aspects can make such a large difference that I doubt we (me or any of us) will ever truly be able to say that we have heard any piece of top range equipment in its definitive and ultimate best setting. Given the potential combinations (and here the performance of a not-too-highly regarded tonearm like the Lustre when played with specific top end cartridges seems a good case in point), it seems that the potential for a new and/or better partnering piece of equipment is almost limitless.

I also feel that the difference between 'understanding' that something is good or should work and actually 'knowing' that it is and does work better than alternatives is a very important part of the learning experience in any walk of life. I suppose this is where many of my experimentations and disagreements with you arise. One needs to know for oneself - I'm sure your children, like mine, demonstrate this continually!

Maybe that's the joy of exploration OR a ground for deciding when satisfaction with what one has becomes your end point (albeit with the potential to set off learning again - in the light of major new developments). As always

Many thanks

dgob July 22, 2010 22:45

Dear Dgob: Nice to read that you are glad and satisfied and nice too that you come back to my " old " advise to you on the whole subject set up.

Congratulations!!!

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

rauliruegas July 22, 2010 11:10

System edited: I have been mightily impressed by the Technics EPC-P100c Mk4 moving magnet cartridge. Enough so to have sold my Dynavector XV-1s moving coil and a whole host of other cartridges. In fact, I'm now only looking at the potential of an Ortofon A90 moving coil to give me my final MM/MC options. Another interesting point about the accuracy of the Technics is that all associated equipment can be better assessed. In my case this has led to my adopting Audio Technica pneumatic footers for the Mambo to rest on (I use the smallest of the range in order to allow the motor to sit on the same platform without belt issues). I have now posted photo's of the range of these footers. And the key difference I find from the prior resting place on a Symposium Ultra sat on a wall mounted birch platform is that staging is far better (deeper and layered) with the removal of hitherto unrecognised platform influences. Similarly, I have now placed my SAEC SS330 metal mat back on the Mambo's Silencer top. In sitting between the Mambo and the record, the SEAC removes hitherto unrecognised tuerntable influeces. The key difference that I detect here is better timber and dramatic contrast in the music I'm now hearing. Never too old to learn Recommended

dgob July 22, 2010 04:33

Hi All,

AS I have written elsewhere:

My MM/MI cartridge shortlist is now in its final penultimateness (?). I'm down to my Glanz G5, Glanz G7, Technics EPC-P100c Mk4 and Audio Technica ATML-170 OCC.

How good are these? Well, I have sold or am in the process of selling on eBay my B&O MMC2, Audio Technica AT20 SLa, Empire EDR9, Empire 1080 LT, Nagaoka MP50 (with 2 unused and original NOS spare styli), Lyra Parnassus Dct moving coil, Sumiko Andante P76, Audio Technica ATML-160 OCC, Denon DL103d moving coil, Empire Ltd 750, Astatic MF100, Empire 900 GT (with 2 unused, original NOS spare styli), Ortofon M20FL, Spectral Moving Coil Reference, ADC XLM-1 integra, Music Maker 3, Audio Technica ATF5 moving coil.

My Azden YM-P50VL and YM-P50E have not really had the time to be judged and so could still make the list. Although this is obviously a reflection of my own taste, it says something about the quality of the four remaining contenders. More soon, or as soon as I can give all of them a fair run for my money.

dgob June 01, 2010 04:08

Hi Dgob,

Thnks for responding. I am not sure how many Essential owners are out there but we would appear to be a small group. All the best and enjoy the music and your system.

ddriveman November 21, 2009 23:02

Hi Ddriveman,

Many thanks for your kind comments on my system.

I think my Essential 3160 is still the state of the art. It has not been challenged by any of the accompanying linestage or phonostage components that I've partnered it with so far. Interestingly, I was in a hifi studio this week listening to their very expensive set up. The difference in quality between what I heard there and what I hear at home was very large. A key part of this was undoubtedly due to the role that the Essential plays in my system and I have spoken with the noted retailer about importing them over here. Time will tell but I do still highly recommend it. I did communicate with a couple of other Essential owners and if I can find their email details (it was quite some time ago though) I will forward these onto you off-line.

If things change regarding my experiences, I will of course let you know.

Happy listening

dgob November 21, 2009 04:55

Dear Dgob,

Nice system! I am in the process of acquiring the Essential 3160 preamp/phono from Raul and wanted to know what you think of it. I have read your review on AudioGon and was wondering if you have anymore to add since its been sometime since that review was posted. Also do you know of others who have the Essential 3150/60?

ddriveman November 21, 2009 01:01

Hi Crubio,

I use either my Audiocraft AC3300 or Grace G-660p. The latter is a new acquisition specifically to play with the XV-1s (once retipped) and a friend who is a hifi technician in Japan says they are a technical marriage made in heaven. I'll feed back when I am certain how true that is. This might take some though time as most my finances are currently going towards acquiring moving magnet cartridges. However, the XV-1s/Grace 660 pairing is a pending highlight (cartridge retip not withstanding)and I'm keen to see if this gimbal pivot arm is the noted improvement over the various unipivots with which I have already tried it - to some good effect I might add.

My Morch DP6 has both a red dot and a green dot armwand and is really for use with some of my more sensitive moving magnets. However, the Audiocraft does a fantastic job with most of these as well.

Do you use a XV-1 and, if so, what is your preferred arm and set up?

Happy listening

dgob November 19, 2009 14:41

Hello,

What arm do you use for the XV-1S? if the Morch, which dot?

Thanks,

Crubio

crubio November 19, 2009 12:49

Hi Crubio,

I have chosen to design my plinth using birch ply, acrylic and aluminium with vibration absorbing stabilizers and a decoupled 2-tier plinth. However, it is still a project awaiting future completion. As soon as I make any progress on this I will post details on my 'Essential System' thread here at Audiogon.

I have only heard slate plinths on Garrard turntables but I was not overly impressed. Others swear by them and maybe I will experiment with them on the SP10 once I've completed my current project and become fully familiar with the set up and any shortfalls.

Cheers

dgob November 05, 2009 04:01

Hello,

What happened to your SP-10? And what are your views on slate plinths?

Thanks,

Crubio

crubio November 05, 2009 01:04