When I first put this system together in 1991-2, I was driving the Martin Logan CLS electrostats with a pair of 140W Audio Research M300 MkII triode monoblocks. The "subs" were a pair of Wilson Puppies driven by a Mark Levinson 23.5 through a Bryston 10B x-over. Later on, I sold the Puppies and the x-over and bought Kinergetics SW 800 subwoofers that were designed to match the CLS's (the "Mini Statement" system.) I never really liked them ;--( I recently moved into an apartment and sold all the Kinergetics stuff and my beloved ARC amps due to space limitations. Began driving the CLS's with the ML 23.5 (very nice) and was resigned to listening to the CLS's with whatever bass they could muster.
When Martin Logan introduced their own subs, I could tell from the physical layout of the three opposing woofers that they had potential, plus I just couldn't imagine Martin Logan putting more sluggish subwoofers on the market;--) I'd been an advocate of "two subwoofers" mostly for easier placement rather than for "stereo bass". But first I thought I'd buy just one ML Depth and see how it sounded. I put it in the middle, crossed over at a mere 35Hz. Incredible! Fast and seamless, just like the Puppies. The omnidirectional woofer arrangement really makes two units unnecessary for good imaging, unless you need more poop.
Four years ago, I bought a new McIntosh MC-275 MkIV in order to drive the stats with tubes again, and it's fantastic! (See my post below.) The Purist cabling and the Depth sub really completed my system to where I'm not making any changes. I have been trying different headphone gear lately -- just for fun!
So now it's summer of 2102, and due to the untimely death of an audiophile friend last year, I had the opportunity to try out some of his very fine equipment, before liquidating it for his family. Only one piece of equipment really 'stuck', and that was an Atma-Sphere MP-3 tube preamp. It is a fully balanced differential Class A design with an all-tube phonostage; 'all-tube' meaning no FET's and no step-up transformers! I'd always wanted to try a tube phonoamp, and I'd always wanted to hear what an MC cartridge (a 'balanced output' device) would sound like when amplified by a phonoamp with balanced inputs. So I got to hear both things at the same time! And now it's time for my incredible Levinson 25s phonoamp and 26s preamp to go to a new audiophile ;~) As a famous Guru said, "Once you get the message, you hang up the phone!"
So for the first time in eight years (2004, when I replaced my ARC SP-14 preamp with the Levinson 25s/26s) my system sounds brand new again! Unfortunately my own body just keeps getting older, so this might be the last time the audio system changes ;~)
Finally, a tube phonostage with balanced inputs; MC cartridge heaven! Replaced Levinson 25s/26s. I never thought that would happen ;~)
Mcintosh MC275 Mk IV -- Shuguang Treasure KT88Z power tubes
Same as the Mk V (the latest 'un-leaded' version) with XLR inputs, detachable PC, and bigger power transformer. Current power tubes are even (slightly) better than my NOS Gold Lions; and only cost $400! The amp itself is a bargain, and its 95w/ch sound is delicious ;-)
HeadRoom Home Balanced Headphone Amp
Drives headphones balanced! 'Crossfeed' feature eliminates 'hole-in-the-middle' effect common with headphone listening. Solid state.
Melos SHA-1
The classic tube headphone amp/preamp from Melos. Better sonics than my HeadRoom unit ;~)
Goldmund Studietto Mk II turntable
It's on a Target wall shelf. Has the JVC quartz-lock motor, Goldmund cones, van den Hul zirconium spindle oil. Replaced the springs with Pandafeet sorbothane isolators -- no resonance, no noise, great bass, direct drive rules!!
SME Series V tonearm
Bought in 1990. Factory serviced in 2004 and installed new van den Hul MC-150S internal silver wiring.
Transfiguration Temper W MC cartridge
0.5mV output, new double ring magnet (yokeless) design. Stunning fit 'n finish. Now broken after 150 hours. It produces an amazing black background against a sparkling top to bottom neutrality, with great transient response and holographic imaging.
Purist Audio Venustas Phono interconnect
It's totally to die for! -- Increases the sonic value of your cartridge by $5000.
Wadia WT-2000 PS-2 CD transport
Wadia's Esoteric Transport w/ the upgraded VRDS heavy-duty Teac platter.
Aural Symphonics Optimism V.2 ST glass optical cable
If you don't have AT&T inputs/outputs on your digital gear necessary for using this glass digital datalink, then you're missing an unsurpassed musical experience from your CDs!
Wadia 27 DAC
Sounds great w/ the AS Optimism 2 glass cable. May consider GNSC mods later on.
Nakamichi CR-7A audiophile cassette
Basically, a Dragon that doesn't reverse (Thank God!) Bought it new with mics and mixer yet!! Analog rules!!
McIntosh MR65B stereo FM tube tuner
Bought it (very) used in 2007 and had it refurbished. Total $700, more than 2X 1962 retail! Amazing sound.
Martin Logan CLS IIz full range electrostat
Owned these starting in 1991 (as CLS II's) Installed new panels 3/11 and they sound better than ever! The Sound Anchor stands improve both the bass (cleaner) and the mid/highs (transient response.) What a difference!
Sound Anchor CLS speaker stand
They get the CLS's off the floor for better staging and keep the panels from rocking, improving the transients (even when I thought they couldn't get any better!)
Martin Logan Depth subwoofer
Better transient response (faster) than the (larger) Descent due to it's smaller, lighter woofers. See my remarks below.
Purist Audio Venustas RCA and XLR interconnects
RCA (1.5m) connects phono preamp to preamp. XLR (8m - 25 feet) connects preamp to amp.
Straightwire Maestro RCA
An 8m pair preamp to subwoofer.
Purist Audio Venustas 2.5m speaker cables
My last speaker cables!
PAD Venustas/Dominus, Aural Thrills and Audio Metallurgy power cords
Purist for the amp and CDT, other stuff elsewhere.
ExactPower EP-15A / SP-15A power units
The EP is a power regenerator. It supplies the amp, sub, speakers, and the SP balanced power unit. The SP supplies the source devices.
Studiotech Performance Series shelf systems
One of audio's best bangs. Price includes shipping. Easy to assemble, great looking and solid!
Tim, thanks for your kind words and fond memories! You have a nicely matched system, nevertheless. And anyone who still uses a reel-to-reel is OK in my book!
1.) Greg, I have that issue but haven't read the review yet. Anything that especially impressed you?
2.) I was thinking about the Moscode for my CLS's, but I'm still thoroughly enjoying my MC275. Wish I could A-B them, and I wish George would fit his amp with balanced inputs so i wouldnt have to buy a new 8 meter pair of single-ended Purist Venustas! What do you feel are the unique attributes of the Moscode (when driving CLS's, of course ;--) I plan to see George in Brattleboro -- maybe this spring --when I visit some old friends who live in nearby Halifax.
3.) I wish more people understood audio as you describe at the top of your system page!
4.) So you think I should buy new panels after 20 years? Or is that just a CLS-I thing? Jim Power says, based on the (excellent) condition of mine, and the fact that they've always lived in clean and VERY low humidity environments, that they're just fine for another twenty years. So he's obviously not trying very hard to sell me a new pair! nevertheless, I'd be equally interested in knowing your thoughts on the matter -- yes I would!
I love youre cls had a my pair from day one I was number 100 made i sold them in 1995 and have been missing that sound Iam extremely happy with I have now but still miss that sound .love youre setup .
Thank you so much for the complement Tzh21y! I'm constantly amazed what is possible when one has the good luck/sense to conjure a system that turns out to be so basically "right" in the first place (which was in 1990!) I'd had many systems before this one, but I never felt I was getting "the magic" I sometimes heard elsewhere.
Then I decided to apply science. With degrees from MIT including extensive studies in electrical engineering and physics, I abandoned the audio reviews and advertising copy, and decided to learn how "audio things" actually work ;--) I'm not afraid to make changes to the sytem as it stands now, and some things have evolved over time like the bass support part of the system: or switching exclusively to Purist Audio cables throughout. But at this point, there is almost nothing I could change or upgrade, that would improve the performance for any reasonable cost.
So the only place left for me to go from here, would be to duplicate the entire system, but at a higher price point. For example, at today's MSRP's, it would cost about $50K to $60K to re-create it more or less as it is. However, translating it into a more expensive version of itself -- for example, changing the CLS's for the new MartinLogan CLX's -- and so on for each component and cable, would result in a MSRP total of between $150 thousand and $200 thousand dollars.
And frankly, even if I had that kind of discretionary spending capability, I'd have to listen very, VERY, carefully before deciding the performance improvement was enough to justify three times the cost of what i already enjoy so much!
Pierre, I've not heard the "Greek Apogees" nor have I heard the 'new and improved" Apogee re-issues from Australia. I thought the original Apogees were possibly the most transparent loudspeakers I ever heard. Equal to, and with several expensive amplifiers driving them, even better than, the ML CLS's and the SoundLab (I haven't heard the ML CLX yet ;-) .
Interesting I was thinking about the workaround for larger spade early this year. In the end, my solution was to reterminated both speaker cable and jumpers with a barrier spade. So the speaker cable and jumpers are stacked...although very neatly.
I have a Purist Dominus PC for my amp and another one feeding the ExactPower regenerator. The main issue for amp PC's is decent conductor sizes (10 AWG or even bigger if it's a > 300 watt amp.) EMI/RFI shielding is optional IMO because (modern) amp makers build that stuff in -- POWER TRANSFER is the name of the game for amps, and nothing does that like big conductors! The other components that like big conductors is CDPs or DACs (don't ask me why, it's one of those yet unsolved mysteries!) -- and they should always be shielded to keep them from broadcasting digital hash into the air.
My only MC275 'tweaks', if you can call them that, are:
Greg, first I don't know how one would modify a xfmr without wrecking it ;-), and second, I assume the ones in the unit are spec'ed for the circuit design.
OTOH, it might be interesting to ask Jim Power if they could be improved upon quality-wise, and/or try and find out who ML sourced them from? What do you think?
Hi Greg, I wasn't contemplating a transformer upgrade because frankly, I didn't know such a thing was possible -- so your request comes as a surprise. Do you have more details. I would definitely like to look into it. Neil
Neil- I am very intereted in your xformer uprgrade to the CLS. Maybe you could start a thread on the matinloganowners website to document your efforts. That Could be fun. greg
Jloveys, what an interesting idea to drive the MC275 directly with the phono preamp! It would be fun to try it, but perhaps a little bit awkward? for everyday use ;-) I also thought it should be possible to connect both sets of inputs on the MC275 and switch between them, but the McIntosh people say 'no'. Did you have any problem doing this?
You have a very nice system, similar to mine in many ways. I understand the Provectus speaker cables are ideal for electrostats (solid core = low capacitance) see Roger Sanders white paper http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com on speaker cables for electrostats (I assume you are using Siltech speaker cables?)
I would like to hear an Allaerts cartridge in my system ;-) .
How are you? You have been very quiet -- too busy making preamplifiers!? I am very happy now with my system, I really am! I have found perfect (for me) tubes for the McIntosh amplifier and now nothing else to do -- nada! Well, yes one thing. This spring I will make some improvements to the MartinLogan electronics for the CLS's. Better wiring, caps, binding posts and coil -- no hurry.
In the past, I always use two subs. However, the Depth subwoofer in my system is maybe not a typical situation. First, the CLS is "full range" (above 45Hz ;-) It has a nice gentle natural roll-off and it dissappears at 35Hz ;-) Sometimes I adjust the sub xover/level for certain poor recordings. But regular setting is 35Hz. It has a gentle slope which adds together nicely with the CLS roll-off. It works this way very flat across the crossover point. (I give it just a small little "kick" with the 25Hz level ;-) You know that in the frequencies under 60 -80 Hz, the brain cannot find the direction, so two subs are not required for the stereo -- but 35Hz is a very unusual low crossover frequency yes! You can stand right in front of the system and you don't know where the low frequencies are coming from! You think they come from the panels!
Another unusual feature for this sub is the omidirectional (3 drivers) radiation pattern. This makes the possibility to match the sub phase exactly with the dipole panels. I place the sub perfectly in the center (L to R yes, AND front to back!) Then I set the phase to 90 degrees. This is exactly halfway between the panel front phase (zero) and the panel rear phase (180 deg.) It only took me 4 months to figure out this is the correct solution!! .
Dear Neil, very nice system you own. As you know I always support the two subwoofers in true stereo fashion and I don't want to go on that way but what I want to ask you about is if you already try a crossover frequency a little higher than 35hz, say it 60-70hz.
IMHO I think that with a little higher frequency you could take way lower the intermodulation distortion on your ML and if this could happen then you " clean " your whole sound reproduction. Well I don't know the operation facilities of your sub, I'm assuming that has independent low and hig pass filters.
Again congratulations for your very fine system!!!!
Since I am new to audiogon and have not edited my system yet, you might be interested to know : Graham Phantom 2 arms, Jan Allaerts MC I MKII, Lyra Helikon Mono, Purist Venustas phono, Graham Slee Revelation+elevator, Purist Proteus Provectus, MC 275, Siltech classic MKII Biwired , ML Ascent i,Mountdourn Short Sub. The biggest sonic upgrade was shunting the ARC preamp, than Symposium platform, than Purist cables, than the flexibility of mono cart+ multi equalisation. Sounds pure and warm. phonopreamp giving acces to wonderful vintage vinyls. All this for affordable price.
Dear Neil, have you ever tryed to connect directly your phonopreamp to the RCA connectors of the MC 275, bypassing your preamp ? By doing so and with the help of the volume control of the Mac you give a new level of transparancy to the sound from your analog source. Your preamp connected XLR will drive CD and tuner. Since I have done this I only listen to vinyls, my ARC LS 25 MKII and Esoteric DV 50 are asleep. The new Purist Proteus Provectus interconnects are marvelus, especialy with MC 275. I have Martin logans ... Fantasic !!!
Funny enough, I put that list together precisely so I could remember what I've had!
I have been mainly using NOS tubes all these years but I think I am going to embark on an experiment to see what good I can get out of new-production tubes. I want to try those Tung-Sol 12AX7 Gold pins. 12AX7s are the only tubes in common between your amp and mine. Anyway, I bet new stock tubes aren't as bad as everyone likes to make them sound, and besides, they are cheap enough to be guaranteed high value at a minimum. We'll see.
Have you tried running your amp in "Twin Amp" mode? I think the MkIV still has this feature. This gives you access to the gain controls. I recommend you at least try it with the gain controls turned up to 2:30 or so. I feel that really improves imaging and definition over the regular "stereo" inputs. At least it more than makes up for whatever deleterious effects the pots might cause the signal inherently.
I say "Ouch!" for your ARC monoblocks! haha. Well sometimes that is the way it goes. It is all about synergy afterall.
I also have Boltz CD racks and like them a lot. I actually need to buy another one soon - my 2 CD330 and CD600 are totally full!
Arthur, I haven't looked at your system in awhile. My, my! I'm going to try and put together a list of past stuff like yours. Unfortunately, my list is longer than my memory I fear!
Yes, I think I have my Mac amp pretty well maxxed out tube-wise. I tried a lot, learned a lot, and know what tubes are best -- within a range of two or three brands for each spot, depending on how one wants to tailor the sound.
I know my new MC275 isn't "the world's best tube amp" but it includes a combination of attributes/features that I honestly couldn't find all incorporated into any other tube amp, regardless of price. It certainly sounds a lot better than my $15000 ARC M300 MkII monoblocks!
