Sunroom System

by p59teitel on Done For Now

Description

The new room deserved a new system. Starting in fall 2011, I replaced an old Kenwood carousel CD player, Yamaha receiver and Cerwin-Vega speakers system with Ayre C-5xeMP SACD/DVD-A/CD player, Plinius M8 pre-amp, Plinius SB-301 power amp, and Revel Salon 2 speakers.

At first I was extremely pleased and had no intention of upgrading. But the more I read on Audiogon about the synergy potential between a good tube pre-amp and SS power amp, the more curious I became. My two audio gurus - Scot Markwell of Elite A/V and Deadhead buddy David Minches - also suggested I might want to try doing this.

So after some research in came the Symphonic Line "The Enlightenment" tubed pre-amp, which I bought after confirming with Symphonic Line's USA rep and importer (and Odyssey Audio impressario) Klaus Bunge that it was a good addition and had been completely rebuilt. This brand intrigued me, if for no other reason than those who bought it seemed to hang onto it for a long long time.

Once I got some noisy tube issues resolved (UPS pounded on the box during shipping), it absolutely shone in my system, providing a more detailed while simultaneously more relaxed and more dynamic sound than the Plinius M8 pre-amp had done.

While speaking with Klaus about the pre-amp, he also told me about an available pair of Symphonic Line Kraft 250 monoblocks that he had imported for a customer. The customer's wife did not like the amps' appearance, and so after a couple of weeks back to Klaus they went. Intrigued, I bought them at a significant discount and they are now continuing to break in as the new cornerstone of my system. Even through break-in fluctuations, they are simply outstanding. If I had to pick four attributes, they would be as follows: very revealing and detailed without fatigue; incredible macro and micro-dynamics; accurate, tuneful and weighty bass with slam but no bloat or boom; and just a general ability to render music as music and, in so doing, disappear. I don't think calling them world-class is unreasonably gushy.

None of the above praise, however, should be taken as a criticism of the Plinius SB-301 power amp. It remains a fine product and it really showed off what it could do when paired with the Symphonic Line tubed pre-amp. If I had to assign a numerical value to the difference, I'd say it provides say 85% of what the Symphonic Line monos can do. Pretty impressive for something that costs a third as much.

So that's where things stand at present (Sept. 2012): I am a happy camper and can now simply listen to music without worrying about hi-fi issues.
Read more...

Room Details

Dimensions: 28’ × 16’  Large
Ceiling: 16’

Components Toggle details

    • Ayre C-5xeMP
    Finally arrived! Component assembly phase of system-building now complete and it's Tweak Time.* *edit 9-3-2012 - or so I thought six months ago! Symphonic Line tube pre-amp external power supply sits below the Ayre player, as it creates noise when placed under the pre-amp.
    • Symphonic Line Belcanto
    Two-box top of the line CD-only player, with 300VA transformer and 280,000µF capacitance. Detailed, dynamic and musical! Now it just needs a permanent home on a rack...
    • Symphonic Line Die Erleuchtung (The Enlightenment)
    Used tube pre-amp made in 1999 but completely reconstructed last year to current specs with current caps etc. Super dynamics, super musical, detailed across the tonal spectrum without any fatigue, and great synergy with Symphonic Line stablemate Kraft 250 monos. And all that with plain old inexpensive Elektro-Harmonix 6922 tubes!
    • Symphonic Line Enlightenment Power Supply
    As it is separate from the pre-amp itself, I felt it deserved its own entry. Contains 400 VA transformer and 70,000 μF capacitor (the 2013 model Symphonic Line power supply for this pre-amp is 300 VA transformer and 56,000 μF capacitor). No shortage of balls here!
    • Symphonic Line Kraft 250 Monoblocks
    Deep, powerful bass without boom or muddiness, clarity in the mids, and detail without glare in the highs. Dynamics both macro and micro are incredible. Forget the putative 250 watts designation: these are extremely powerful high current amps that effortlessly drive my large and inefficient Revel Salon 2s to concert SPLs without negative effect upon dynamics, tonal balance or detail throughout the volume dial. Per Klaus Bunge, the Symphonic Line USA importer (and Odyssey owner) who brokered my deal for these substantially new amps, the Kraft 250 monos bested even the vaunted Kraft 300 stereo amp he has in his personal system. I can't speak directly to that comparison, but I can say that I'm pretty sure I'm all set for the next decade or two.
    • Revel Ultima Salon 2
    Full range speakers that are very detailed across the tonal range. Highly integrated sound notwithstanding the multiple drivers. Soundstaging is excellent, as is dispersion that grows the sweet spot size and makes them perfect for large rooms. They handle dynamic shifts with aplomb - simply put, a drum hit sounds like a drum hit. Feeding and care with properly-matched amplification is key - they are not very efficient and so benefit from powerful SS amps. The beryllium tweeters are super-detailed and resolving and do not need any further help in that regard from your amplification. They sounded very very good with the Plinius gear. They sound even better with the Symphonic Line gear and IMO are of a quality to justify amplification that costs twice as much as they do. In the end it sounds silly to describe something that lists for $22K as a bargain - yet it really is.
    • Furutech Alpha S14 cable w/ FP-203 spades
    Custom 3-meter PCOCC-alpha copper speaker cables, assembled by Scot Markwell of Elite A/V. Nicely detailed without sounding etched, they excel in the low end.
    • Furutech Custom RCAs from Scot Markwell
    FA-220 PCOCC-alpha copper audio cable with FP120 F(R) rhodium-plated screw-down RCA pins.
    • Furutech Custom Power Cords
    Custom 1.5m 240V power cables assembled by Scot Markwell of Elite A/V in Los Angeles.

    FP3TS20 Power Cable with FI-11(G)
    IEC connectors and FI-E
    11(G) SCHUKO connectors. Used with Symphonic Line Kraft 250 monos.
    • Furutech FPSWSD (G)
    Schuko duplex wall socket; fed by separate 10/2 gauge electrical wires via 30 amp breakers (sheetrock repair TBD). Currently feeding the Symphonic Line Kraft 250 monos.
    • Furutech Absolute Power-18 power cable
    Stock Furutech alpha OCC power cables with rhodium-plated plugs
    • Furutech GTX-D (R) Duplex 120V Outlet
    Rhodium-plated duplex outlet that will replace existing Leviton 120V outlet feeding Ayre C-5xeMP and Symphonic Line tubed pre-amp.
    • Plinius M8
    No phono stage. Currently on the bench after being replaced by Symphonic Line tubed pre-amp, it served me well for 10 months. Very good bass in particular.
    • Plinius SB-301
    Class A/B with heavy Class A Bias; 310 wpc into 8 ohms, 470 wpc into 4 ohms. Currently on the bench after new Symphonic Line Kraft 250s entered system. An excellent stereo amp that performed admirably in all aspects, and really showed its stuff when mated to the Symphonic Line tubed pre-amp for a few weeks. It took world-class monos that list for over 3X as much to knock it out of my system.
    • Furutech FA-220, FP-601M(G) , FP-601F(G)
    FA-220 cable w/XLR interconnects. Currently on the bench because new Symphonic Line gear is single-ended only.
    • Star Sound Apprentice XL Platform
    The Apprentice XL Platforms recently replaced Star Sound's Audio Points that had resided under the Salon 2s for six months. Without getting into a two-page dissertation about what they do, I'd summarize that they put even more meat on the musical bone (tonal richness and heft) while simultaneously removing even more film from the window into the music. I have no idea how this stuff works...but it does! And now I have a pair under the amps too, also working to good effect.
    • Furutech Custom Power Cords
    Custom 1.5m 240V power cables assembled by Scot Markwell of Elite A/V in Los Angeles.

    FP3TS20 Power Cable with FI-11(G)
    IEC connectors and FI-E
    11(G) SCHUKO connectors. Used with Symphonic Line Kraft 250 monos.

Comments 37

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Owner
Thanks Lapierre and Spinaker01.

Re: room color - despite the thousands and thousands of paint chips available for females to obsess over at the paint store, I think they are genetically hardwired to really like only about ten of them! And my female is even further hardwired in favor of khaki, so this was actually a really radical step for her to depart her preferred palette of light brown to slightly less light brown LOL.

Agree too that the Revels do well in glassy rooms. The Studio 2s should sound great in your space, especially with the JL sub, and you will find that the beryllium tweeter makes a big difference. I wanted to keep it as simple as possible and so went with the Salon 2s because of their extra woofer, but hey, if you've already got a good sub then the Studio 2s make more sense.

I also agree with your post on your system page that Salon Ultima 2 series speakers aren't done full justice by Levinson gear. I first heard the Salon 2s mated with an ML 532 amp that had similar output characteristics to my Plinius SB-301, and to my ears the Plinius beats the 532 in dynamics, speed, bass weight and control. Of course ML and Revel are both Harman companies and so there are obvious dealer advantages to marketing both lines together, but you have to wonder how many people who hear the combo conclude Revels are bland and lifeless, when they really aren't. In any event, I bet your ARC gear will work just great with the Studio 2s in your lively environment and they are probably a better choice for you than the power hog Salon 2s anyway!

p59teitel

Great room and system! I also have a lot of glass in my room but do indeed find the Revel speaker line to be very accommodating in a number of tough environments while still sounding great.(not the case with my previous B&W's) Currently thinking of upgrading to the Studio 2 series.

spinaker01

Congrats on Ayre CD player. I've listened to several Ayre components and have been really impressed with the sound.

Hum...just notice I'm using the same color in your sunroom. Secretly our wives must be communcating.

lapierre

Owner
The Ayre C-5xe arrived about 4 weeks ago with the MP filter upgrade installed by Ayre, and is now deployed into my system. I am using the MP filter under the "Measure" switch and not the apodizing one under "Listen," as I prefer the richer and more meaty sound of the MP filter to any additional high-end detail gained with the apodizing filter.

The sound is slightly forward with this player (although for me not as much as one or two reviewers had suggested). Imaging is wide and very deep, dynamics are strong, tonal balance is exactly where I want it and the bass has weight and authority.

Redbook playback is very very good - the MP filter really does a nice job mitigating the pre-ringing that causes glare. I would however caution anyone from expecting it to sound "tube-like" or "euphoric" - you still get digital precision and dynamics, just with the sometimes annoying and fatiguing side effects essentially cut out. It's digital made better, not a return to Grampa's soft-as-butter tube and turntable setup.

It's also no slouch on the superior disc formats. Last night's listen for the first time to the Dark Side of the Moon SACD was revelatory. It also did extremely well presenting the Goodbye Yellow Brick Road DVD-A - it felt like Elton was right there between the speakers belting the songs out. I won't be replacing thousands of CDs with SACD or DVD-A, but I could see going to those formats for the discs that will get more than an occasional play (depending of course on whether the allegedly superior source is a new transfer off of master tapes and not simply upsampled from a Redbook source!).

It's also nice to be 99% of the way to where I'll end up with this system, which finally has a worthy source player to fully exploit and showcase the capabilities of the Plinius amp combo and Salon 2s.

p59teitel

Yeah I wondered about that last 110 outlet being below your standards.

Great idea using 30 amp breaker with the Duplex Schuko.

lapierre

Owner
Jaxwired, yes, the speakers will be brought out more into the room - once I get the part of the room you don't see in the photos emptied of massive speaker boxes etc! Which in turn means clearing some space in the basement...but I will say that for now they don't sound terrible in the corners. Pretty forgiving speakers, these Salon 2s. And I do like the wide soundstage with them that I get with them splayed out wide.

Lapierre, I now have the SB-301 up on a glass VTI BLG Series 4 amp stand with allegedly silver legs (they were actually battleship grey, so I had to hit them with some silver spray paint so they would match not only the color of the amp but also the amp stand's feet and fittings. The resident female's OCD is starting to rub off on me after a quarter-century together, LOL).

I'm betwixt and between on the final setup. Option A is moving an existing custom mahogany entertainment center out there that once housed a 32" CRT display and sticking the amp in the CTR bay and the CDP and pre-amp in the side cabinets - but I will likely only do that if I move one of my flatscreens out there and put it on top. It's not the primary viewing display, which is in a different house altogether (this system is in the summer house, which also doubles as my office), and only has a couple of tiny satellite speakers hooked up for sound, so would have no effect on this dedicated stereo system. Option B is getting a couple more amp stands and parking the CDP and pre-amo on those, or perhaps a small rack-based solution.

Going forward, a computer-based audio source is on the horizon, so I'm beginning initial research into USB-based DACs, maybe a media server laptop, etc. etc. Tons of options out there now with widely-varying capabilities. This of course also implicates equipment storage and setup, so another variable to consider. I also am thinking of disconnecting the 110 AC outlet that is last in a series of three and replacing it with a better, duplex outlet, dedicated wiring and 20 amp breaker - the Plinus gear is on separate 30 amp breakers into the duplex Schuko. So maybe more wall repair ahead too!

p59teitel

Nicely done!

Great room to enjoy the music experience.

What is your thinking on audio racks?
Single-width rack for preamp, source and future components and amp stand for the massive eightyplus pounds Plinius SB-301 is my first thought.

Suggest using CrackShot "High Performance" spackling paste to fill the void around the Furutech FPSWSD (G). Nothing but great success with this product in repairing small and big holes in walls and filling large gaps from crown molding installation.

What's next on the hifi road map?

lapierre

Gorgeous system and gorgeous room. Congrats. The speakers seem like they should come out into the room a bit more, no? Anyway, very nice selection of gear. Well done.

jaxwired

Owner
LOL - after 25 years together, the missus and I have encountered and warred over every domestic issue possible.

It's kind of like Cold War politics - we need to make sure we don't blow it all up and thus have a thorough and complex demarcation of interests. She has no say over things like motor vehicles and technology. I have no say over bedding, paint schemes or window treatments. The kitchen remains an ongoing trouble spot...

p59teitel

P59,

Sounds like we are in similar situation. Its my wife's sunroom and I am glad she permits my speakers in there at all. She does not complain much about it and when she does its always just about wires showing.

mapman

Owner
The room is surprisingly better-sounding than I had thought it would be. It is certainly still quite lively, but there's enough furniture in it to avoid really bad slap echo. The depth of the window framing due to newly-adopted hurricane-resistant code requirements (that initially caused me to curse the building inspector's name to the heavens - "Whaddya mean, 6" framing and structural steel too?!?!") help in breaking up reflections too. I leave the French door on the opposite side open too, which helps.

Of course, to get the absolute best sound I'd have to put heavy drapery on the glass walls, do something up in the ceiling, install bass traps etc. etc. And it's a good thing I like my bass fat and round! But as I have no intention of ruining the original purpose of a room with a view by going nuts "undoing" the windows and I'm pretty content with the sound in the nearfield at least, this will do.

p59teitel

I have a very similar sunroom. Its the toughest acoustically of the 6 rooms in my home that I have wired for good sound due to the windows on three sides, tile floor, vaulted ceiling and square 12'X12' dimensions. I've mostly tamed all the other rooms, but the sunroom still has some artifacts like a slightly fat bass that I would still like to tame better someday.

mapman

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